claykos Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 What's the deal with classing on these? ST1 or SU? I see the comp coupe is ST1 legal with a -.2. My guess is a stock comp coupe is around 3000 lbs and 475-500 to the wheels that would put power to weight at 6-.2=5.8=ST1 (assuming DOTs). Similar ratio for Porsche Cup cars I imagine. Seems like Speed GT and Rolex cars should be SU as they are some of the fastest door slammers out there.... So....where do they end up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 24, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 24, 2006 Nope, ST1 is for cars of the WCGT caliber. SU is mostly for sports racers and high hp tube-frame cars which are about 5-8 seconds faster than WCGT cars at an average track. For example Tom's Comp Coupe did a best 1:04.5 at PIR two weeks ago. The best time for the ASC stock cars was 1:04.2. Tom is maxed out in ST1. The ASC cars only put out 330 rwhp and weigh 2850 pounds. That would give them an adjusted wt/power ratio of 7.9. So, you can see what kind of damage one of these stock cars could have done if it had 500+ hp. I'm currently working on developing a modification factor that would allow the lower hp tube frame cars to compete in ST. From the example I just gave, it looks like they need a very hefty assessment to ensure a level playing field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claykos Posted December 24, 2006 Author Share Posted December 24, 2006 Alright, I get it. So SU is TransAm car ST1 is WCGT car...hmmm...I wanted to have the vipers and porsches to play with! You realize to get an FFR with aero and slicks to ST1 it's adjusted power to weight is 5.5+.75(slicks)+.5(aero)+.8(2450bs)=7.55 The main advantage of our cars is power to weight, seems like the way the rules are written it takes that away entirely. An FFR with 7.6 power to weight is not going to outrun (or run anywhere close to) a comp coupe with 5.7 power to weight. I have double (or is it half?) the power to weight and I could not pull Tom Glenn in a straight line. He would actually start walking away above 120 mph because of the drag difference. Also, I have seen a Pro Driven WCGT spec Porsche go 1:02 at PIR. I guess I don't really have a suggestion on how to fix it but something just doesn't seem right. By the way, nice job on the rules! I don't envy you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trglenn Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Geez Clay you were all over me during the race. I thought we were very well matched. As my CC was configured at PIR it would be in SU next year. I have to lose the slicks and add some weight to make ST1. Have not decided yet which way to go. Since you are a Wildcat it is problbly best if you leave the racing racing to us old Horned Frogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claykos Posted December 24, 2006 Author Share Posted December 24, 2006 I agree that we were well matched and it was great fun! That's why I'm trying to make sure comp coupes stay in SU! But we would not have been well matched if i was down 200hp to what I have now. That is all I was trying to say... Happy holidays, Clay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trglenn Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 I hear ya. In SU I have seen well prepared higher HP Sports Racers and Trans Am type cars at PIR run :58's and 59's. I'm not sure we can make enough mods to get there with our cars. Have a great holiday, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted December 24, 2006 National Staff Share Posted December 24, 2006 Alright, I get it. So SU is TransAm car ST1 is WCGT car...hmmm...I wanted to have the vipers and porsches to play with! You realize to get an FFR with aero and slicks to ST1 it's adjusted power to weight is 5.5+.75(slicks)+.5(aero)+.8(2450bs)=7.55 The main advantage of our cars is power to weight, seems like the way the rules are written it takes that away entirely. An FFR with 7.6 power to weight is not going to outrun (or run anywhere close to) a comp coupe with 5.7 power to weight. I have double (or is it half?) the power to weight and I could not pull Tom Glenn in a straight line. He would actually start walking away above 120 mph because of the drag difference. Also, I have seen a Pro Driven WCGT spec Porsche go 1:02 at PIR. I guess I don't really have a suggestion on how to fix it but something just doesn't seem right. By the way, nice job on the rules! I don't envy you Tom had slicks on also like he said, so he would have to drop a bunch of hp also to stay in ST1 (or lose the slicks which would be the better plan since he can run 345 DOT's still). Now that you mentioned it, I haven't actually approved the Porsche Cup cars yet for ST, or come up with a modificatiion factor for them (not street legal cars so they need approval). The 997 Cup cars have a wt/hp ratio of 6.3 right out of the box, plus they take a hit for being light. I'm not sure if they have a non-synchromesh tranny or not. Any Viper, Vette, or Porsche guys want to put in their thoughts on a modification factor for them? I'm leaning toward at least 0.2 like the Comp Coupe got, but maybe more after I do some more research on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claykos Posted December 24, 2006 Author Share Posted December 24, 2006 997 Porsche cup cars are sequential dog ring box (I'm 99% sure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU N EGL Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 997 Porsche cup cars are sequential dog ring box (I'm 99% sure). YES they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexaST-1 Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I have spoken with the NASA Texas Directors and they plan to give a big push for GTS down here. THe Porsche Cup Cars would be duplicated in ST and in GTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 3, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 3, 2007 I have spoken with the NASA Texas Directors and they plan to give a big push for GTS down here. THe Porsche Cup Cars would be duplicated in ST and in GTS. It does look like they (even the 997) would be eligible for GTS5 if they they aren't lightened or power modded much. They shouldn't have a problem meeting the 6.0:1 ratio for DOT tires, and may even make the 6.5:1 ratio for non-DOT slicks. With 400 rwhp and a 2536 lbs curb weight, once you add the weight of a driver and take some drivetrain losses for dyno testing, the ratio should fit into GTS5. Looks like the 997's have to run at 2850 lbs in WCGT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 16, 2007 National Staff Share Posted January 16, 2007 We went with a -0.4 modification factor for the GT3 Cup cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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