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2007 944 spec rules are out!


944-Spec#94

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944-Spec#94

Here they are.

 

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/944challenge.pdf

 

 

Remember this when reading the rules.

 

1 Definition and Claim The Porsche 944™-924S™ spec class is a class for those individuals that wish to race a Porsche in a competitive series with limited expense and low cost of operation. These rules are intended to control costs and reduce any performance advantage from the cars so that driving ability and race setup are the greatest factors in determining winners. The following are approved and disapproved items for the class. The spirit of the class is for all cars to be equal in weight and horsepower and be competitive with one another. The focus will be on driver ability and not dollar ability. This class is not intended to be an engine builder or innovator’s class.

 

 

Noteable changes...

 

No Rules Change (other then safety, corrections & clarifications) Until Dec 1, 2009

 

1) Weight is still 2600lbs

2) Stock DME Chips are required as of June 1, 2007

3) Fuel Cells are allowed

4) Stock headers are required and exhaust must exit at the back of the car at the stock point.

5) Koni sports or Bilstein HD are the only shock allowed. No Bilstein AK shocks

6) Single springs in front (ie can't use two springs of different rates)

7) Clear allowance for hollow 31 mm t-bars (30 mm effective rate)

8. Delrin bushings are not allowed.

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Nice.... nothing like showing up after a week's absence to find my uncompleted car already violates the new rules.

 

Was the new DME rule made for the purpose of universal specs across class (944 spec/cup)? The cost certainly can't be an issue, as they are dirt cheap. If it's a cost thing, you might as well outlaw AC delete as well... the bracket and belt cost more than the DME chip, and probably resulted in the same power gain.... < 1%.

 

And I must say that I'm glad I didn't go for aftermarket headers too, or I'd be majorly pissed off. Even several weeks ago there were discussions about headers on this board. Now they are $500 useless hunks of metal.

 

Seeing how as of this moment I am still the only one interested in this class from the PNW, it seems it may be time for me to stop restricting myself to so few mods and improvements just to stay NASA-legal. At the very least I'm keeping my chip and perhaps I will acquire another spare stock DME in the future. If I end up racing, it will need further prep anyway, and then I'll revert to spec-legal format. I understand the desire to make the rules level and sensible, but taking away items that were explicitly allowed before kind of sucks.

 

And I have to add that I'm fired up that LEXAN is now allowed after I just spent $400 replacing the GLASS windshield with late antenna glass. The pitch to me sounded like a cost issue there too, but I could have gotten lexan cheaper than glass. Freakin sweet. I struggle to comprehend disallowing chips and headers but changing the rules to allow lexan. If lexan is a safety thing now, it should have been a safety issue before. Whatever, same old arguments I guess.

 

Looks a year of street and DE use for me...

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944-Spec#94

Eric,

Lexan is only allowed in the doors. These can be removed so there is no real advantage.

 

Glass must still be used for the windshield.

 

 

Chips will no longer be legal. This along with the headers were intend to ensure an even HP level among all cars. Off the shelf tuner chips don't make hp, but we have some data that shows that combining the allow changes with headers and a custom programed chip gains are to be found. Requiring the stock chip will level the paying field for those that do not want to burn a custom chip for their car.

 

Do you still have your stock chip? If so you can just swap it back in.

 

 

I understand the desire to make the rules level and sensible, but taking away items that were explicitly allowed before kind of sucks.

 

Yes it sucks, but it has become required in order to maintain the equal performance of the cars.

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Doh....

 

 

Looks like in the effort to provide rules across the board, that the rules got more confusing, at least to me. Now instead of providing rules for one class there are two prep levels in two classes.

 

Evidently I was seeing the rules for Prepared Cup. Fun stuff.

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Hurray! I am soooo glad to see the rules and more importantly the stability of the rules for three years. Thank you to all who worked on this. Now anyone interested in 944 Spec has a stable set of rules that do indeed foster the original intent that "The focus will be on driver ability and not dollar ability"

 

See you at Mid-Ohio for the NASA National Championships,

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Bill,

Glad to see you satisfied with a set of rules in hand. Let's keep building our class across the country.

ONE WORLD.

ONE CLASS.

EQUAL, CHEAP, RELIABLE 944's.

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Requiring the stock chip will level the paying field for those that do not want to burn a custom chip for their car.

 

Except for guys like David Hirsch who put in an aftermarket chip to gain 5hp and to get him with his other improvements, to 133. So, when he takes out his chip and goes back to 128 hp, the guys with 138-140 hp will take out their chips and go back to 133-135, that works! Lets hope those ellusive headers net another 5 hp decrease or this is all for zero! We all knew this was coming, but, doesn't mean the pill is any easier to swallow or anymore justified. Fact is, one of the more expensive "still allowed" mods is the LSD that only a handfull have. They cost more and show measurable gains for people of 1.5-2 secs. Go figure, I see less people with that $2,500 odd for that mod? Anyway?

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I think Dylan actually has a point here. Today you guys are bitching about having to spend $200-$700 for a header and a chip... However, no one plugged either the LSD rule, or did anything about people who can afford to freshen their motors regularly...

 

The old mods allowed people who were under power with older mods to gain the HP necessary to run up front... THIS HAS BEEN NO PROOF THAT ANY OF THESE MODS DECREASED LAPTIMES... however, we KNOW that a GUARD LSD will reduce laptimes at a tight track like streets by over a second...

 

How is this saving anyone money? You guys plugged up the rules that were costing people $200-$700 and left the rules allowing unlimited spending on LSDs and Motors wide open....

 

How is this effective??

 

In addition, the bushing rule is the worst part... Some who replaced there 20 year old busings with Delrin, will now have to go back and replace the bushings in their car back to OEM? At a shop rate of $90, this is a $2000 job... and the car will not be one tenth faster or slower... Dont both Tim and Joe have Delrin Bushings? WHat would you guys do if you didnt do your own work??

 

So lets recap... You have saved the inbound racers $700 on chips and headers that may or may not increase performance... you have left out the real money issues of LSDs and Professionally built motors... and you have stuck existing racers with a bill of as much as $4000, (puchase stock chip, stock headers, replace bushings, purchase a set of Konis, purchase a auto battery...) to race a car that was legal yesterday...

 

This should prove interesting.....

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What's done is done. Oh well.

 

You can now run lexan side windows. Where the hell did that come from? Not too long ago in the forum past there were numerous posts supporting lexan windshields with a couple against. That made sense and really nice to see the legislative powers respond to the majority.

 

Another huge costs savings implemented is the chance to spend more money by installing a fuel cell. That really levels the playing field and makes a lot of sense for those who "gotta have."

 

Funny, I don't recall having a chance to posts some thoughfull feedback on lexan side windows, fuel cells, or stock rubber bushings. Nice to know one has a voice.

 

At least I will leave knowing that you can still spend $3000 on LSD to gain a couple of seconds but can't spend $400 on aftermarket headers that may only gain you oohhs and aahhs in the paddock.

 

Now I have to call to insult my engine builder's intelligence. That will be a 944 CHALLENGE.

 

Not much left to say, other than in my simple, equally low class, cheap one world attempt at a waste basket shot with my just now peeled off the car wadded up NASA stickers score report.

 

I missed.

 

NASA 1 - Me 0.

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legoland951

Why are delrin bushings not allowed and polyurethane allowed? Is there a price difference? The cost of replacing the torsion bars and polyurethane bushings (parts and labor+alignment afterwards) easily tops $1,200 up to $2000 so to get delrin bushings and spend $50 more than poly bushings makes sense just for less squeaking if nothing else. I hope people who came up with the rule change know how much it costs to remove the delrin bushings and redo the rear alignment after dissembling their rear suspension to do so. I would estimate the cost depending the shop to be from $400 to $800 after the alignment. I also suspect the very few used genII stock headers available will cost more than the cheaper new aftermarket headers. They are going for about $150 if you can find them but I wouldn't be surprised if they double in price in the near future. I bought headers for the 2 cars I am building and have 2 LSDs along with chip and delrin bushings per the existing rules. Now I am tempted to finish the cars and run with POC.

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944-Spec#94

Couple points.

 

1) Delrin.... I talked to Tim on this. Seems there may have been an error made. We are working on it.

 

2) Lexan... It has been allowed in doors and only in the doors. Side all other windows must be glass? Why? Well you can remove the door glass if you chose and lexan weights more than air so the only advantage is being able to close the car when parked outside as we must run windows down anyway.

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brant giere

As far as single springs go...what about the small alignment springs that keep the coil spring from jumping out of the strut when you jack up the car?? I have just installed these to keep the springs situated in the perch. They serve no purpose other than that...do I need to remove them?

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There have been more than a few errors made as brought to light by many posts so far. And it has only been one day.

 

May I suggest that NASA re-look at;

 

1. Financially and legislatively punishing the current and most active participants for the benefit of the unknown few newbies.

 

2. Being penny wise and pound foolish. Saving pennies on headers and chips to spend mega buck on more frequent engine re-builds, pricey LSD's, uneccessary bushing retro-fits, uneeded fuel cells, etc..

 

3. And after a few comments made about equal and cheap racing, what happened to the lexan windshield allowance that the majority of posters seemed to support?

 

4. Making a New Year's resolution to seek more input from the current participants as opposed to some phantom newbie numbers out there. This will also address the National concerns since National goes beyond NASA National and the confusion, discrepencies with 944spec rules within NASA as well as PCA, SCCA, and POC 944 one worlder's. The possibility to cause more harm then good is way to probable to ignore.

 

5. Mid-season 2007 rule changes are a huge can of worms in race results and points that have not been addressed and will need to be, possibly after the fact. This will hurt current participants again.

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My question to the group is simple. Is this tightening of the rules intended to increase participation? Are there that many cars out there that would conform to these new regulations that made disenfranchising your current competitor base neccessary?

As I am in a region with no NASA as yet, we just try to fit in with SCCA rules still. We are happy with our relative speed with the Spec Miata's and other IT cars we race with now using the IT rules. Using all the original parts again would be dandy if the cars weren't 20+ years old now. OE parts are expensive or even not available anymore. I have a large supply of stock exhaust manifolds for anyone that needs them! Greg Fordahl

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As a inbound racer, I must say that I'm very happy that these new rules came out before I bought any of the now illegal bits for my car. Honestly I'm glad chips and headers are now standardized, since I'm stock for both and don't have to spend any $$$ there to keep up with the jones's. I feel bad for those with aftermarket chips and headers, but looking big picture at the (hopefully) potential large growth of the class, I can see why these changes were made.

 

1) Delrin.... I talked to Tim on this. Seems there may have been an error made. We are working on it.

 

Joe, Tim and NASA...I eagerly await the final decision on this. I will be installing my bushings next weekend, but I will hold off as long as I need to while clarification is made.

 

Thanks and happy new year!

 

(Look for me in March at Cal. Speedway HPDE for the debut of my car!)

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When the smoke settles, I hope someone will let me know what class I can run in when I get my lic. My car came new with fuch's and a LSD. I'm not removing either one because they are spec.

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944-Spec#94
They are called tender springs.... ans according to the new rules... yes. Me too....

 

Nope... do they create and spring rate? Nope.

 

 

I have them and will keep them in place. The rule is intened if you run two springs that do something.

 

Tender springs are what 5lbs per inch. Legal by me. Now 150lbs in "tender" springs are far different story.

 

Guys you still need to think about the intent of the rules here.

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I just want to make a general point and will try to refrain from attacking the new rules again... though Dilly's point about LSD is probably the most valid of anything brought to the table so far, and something I missed. Evidently my cursory glance also missed the change to automotive batteries only, excluding the Odyssey batteries many of us have.

 

Changes to the rules that take effect mid-season are a nightmare for those of us trying to finish up cars. Should one build the car to break the new rules in order to be competitive for the first half of the season? Or should one build to the 'later' season rules and get creamed for half the year by those with 10% more power? How does that make for a fair season? (Yes I know the argument about driver skill, but you can't say it's a skill thing while having such a legal disparity.)

 

Being new to NASA, it also does not instill much confidence in the governing bodies that rules would be changed backwards to make currently legal parts illegal. If I go buy an LSD now since it is still legal, what of NEXT year when that gets made illegal. Another 2K down the drain. That's running up on 30% of total build cost that gets declared illegal after the fact. And then to be told that the published rules likely have mistakes. Ouch.

 

These things are disconcerting when I'm looking at a custom cage build for 2 grand. Are the rules for those gonna change? Different diameter, different door bars, etc? I really don't know what to think or do at the moment, which is a bad thing as my local track opens in just 2 months time.

 

Keep in mind that to actually race with you guys I would have to undertake a 12 hour tow each way for the CLOSEST race to me. I'm trying, I really am, and I want this to work out. But I don't enjoy throwing good money after bad...

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944-Spec#94
When the smoke settles, I hope someone will let me know what class I can run in when I get my lic. My car came new with fuch's and a LSD. I'm not removing either one because they are spec.

 

Fuchs are not legal in 944 spec nor have they been ever. The LSD is legal and will be for the next 3 years at least.

 

You should be able to sell off the Fuchs and buy 2 sets of cookie cutters.

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Chris,

 

Glad to see the rules work for you... Which generation of stock headers do you have? There are 3, Generation one which is 13lbs heavier, Generation two in which EVERY single set I have ever seen is cracked and Generation three, which I think are about to become hard to get and probably more expensive than a decent set of aftermarkets....

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It's amazing the parallel worlds we live in. I recently ordered and bought an expensive computer and waiting on delivery. Their customer service department just called me to tell me that their model series directors pushed for some new product packages and that I now need to accept an older slower processor and that it will cost me more for that switch back. I am also required to accept less memory storage and yep, there is a hourly shop fee that I will have to pay to get that fine feature so I can play my games.

 

I asked to speak with the Director but the line was disconnected, he was unavailable and if you ask me he was disconnected before the new packages came out.

 

By the way, I was thinking about swapping my flat screen for a 15" inch box of tubes but they are only found in old monitor scrapyards and since most have been recycled, some are even being used as boat anchors and now are scare, the price has gone up. Please wait a moment, I have to adjust my rabbit ears on my black and white.

 

Damn, I have to yell at the son to turn down the eight track player. Be right back. Wife is playing the Atari. She's no help.

 

Took me awhile. Tripped of the vinyl records that I brought out just in case the NASA 944 antique car club wants to cheese fondue on New Years' eve.

 

Shoot, just spilled a wine cooler on my parachute pants. Wiped that up with my wife's bell bottoms.

 

But, the computer peoples were gracious enough to allow me some time to make my decision on buying their new and improved, more expensive, but less performance packed product or opt to just use my trusty dusty abacus.

 

If I do buy the computer, I will know that it is good for three years but some parts will be 25 years old. So, I will have full confidence that those parts will perform at speed with complete safety and reliability so I will never have to re-boot or worry about any untimely crashes.

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I am not surprised, but am a bit dissapointed.

 

I am surprised by the Delrin bushing issue though and am glad when I replaced mine that by chance I did not put them in...Whew

 

As these are 20 year old junkyard cars that we are supposed to run with a junkyard motor, they may need help. It appears that a fresh$$$ motor is in order now.

 

I certainly can appreciate what the objectives are here, but there will be those with new/fresh motors that may have some advantage and the cost to freshen up a motor if you don't have the time to do it your self is significant. We can't outlaw fresh motors as they do have catastrphic failures, but we could allow a tired motor to run a bit stronger.

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