Panoz GTS

[JimB]

Has there been any discussion of classing a Panoz GTS or giving it a modification factor? It looks like it would fit into ST1. It's my understanding that without being specifically addressed it would be stuck in STU.

 

Thanks for your help.

Jim

[Greg G.]

I'll take a look at them. You are correct that cars that did not began life as production cars approved for street use, that have not specifically been approved for ST, run in SU.

[TexaST-1]

Some of the faster ones down here can almost run with my ST1 Corvette when preped to last seasons GPC rules. They will certainly outrun most of the ST2 cars with ease.

[Greg G.]

I've researched them, and we will be assigning a -0.2 modification factor for them in '07.

[JimB]

Thanks Greg!

[DanElam]

I'm confused a bit here Greg. Certainly I think we want the Panoz to run with us (especially in ST-2) because it brings a ready-made set of cars to the class, but I can't figure out the logic on the aero-mods. The Viper Competition Coupe - which does not begin life as a production car - gets an aero mod of -0.2. Now the Panoz gets the same, despite the fact that it doesn't have anything close to the Viper in terms of aerodynamics. Further confusing the issue is that if I run a FFR Coupe with a 1965 aerodynamic package I end up with a -0.5 aero modifier.

 

I recognize that everyone lobbies for their packages, but in trying to handicap cars and make some assessments, I don't understand how two cars with very different aero profiles are the same and the worst aero package gets the biggest penalty.

 

Thanks for the hard work to sort through these things.

 

As an FYI, I think the Panoz cars you have seen on the track aren't going to quite be the same ones that end up in ST-2. My quick calcs show them having either to detune or add weight from the configs they currently run in SCCA. They will probably do ok on long tracks like VIR and Road Atlanta, but have a harder time on tracks like Infineon or Summit Point. The cars might need too many mods from their baselines to be competitive in ST-1.

[Greg G.]

I'm confused a bit here Greg. Certainly I think we want the Panoz to run with us (especially in ST-2) because it brings a ready-made set of cars to the class, but I can't figure out the logic on the aero-mods. The Viper Competition Coupe - which does not begin life as a production car - gets an aero mod of -0.2. Now the Panoz gets the same, despite the fact that it doesn't have anything close to the Viper in terms of aerodynamics. Further confusing the issue is that if I run a FFR Coupe with a 1965 aerodynamic package I end up with a -0.5 aero modifier.

 

I recognize that everyone lobbies for their packages, but in trying to handicap cars and make some assessments, I don't understand how two cars with very different aero profiles are the same and the worst aero package gets the biggest penalty.

 

Thanks for the hard work to sort through these things.

 

As an FYI, I think the Panoz cars you have seen on the track aren't going to quite be the same ones that end up in ST-2. My quick calcs show them having either to detune or add weight from the configs they currently run in SCCA. They will probably do ok on long tracks like VIR and Road Atlanta, but have a harder time on tracks like Infineon or Summit Point. The cars might need too many mods from their baselines to be competitive in ST-1.

 

Dan, it's not just about aero, in fact, it's just as much about the chassis, and purpose built and designed nature of the vehicle compared to a production car converted into a racecar. The Panoz does not have a great aero advantage over other production "Supercars", but it does have a chassis advantage. The Comp Coupe has more of an aero advantage than anything else compared to a production Viper. The GTS Cup cars have both aero advantages, motor position advantage, and chassis advantage. We have proven lap times on all of these vehicles over the years with expert drivers to help guide their classing. We don't have the same with the Factory Five or Caterhams, and really, there are so many options for directions to go with Aero that are untested, we will stay more conservative the first year. FFC's have proven that they can be remarkably fast (in spec form) with the best FFC drivers behind the wheel with their 10.9:1 wt/power ratio (ST adjusted wt/power of 10.5). ST2 allows them to increase the ratio by almost 2 with power or weight modifications, and make any suspension mods/adjustments or balancing/ballast mods/adjustments. Throwing in a big wing and splitter (and canards, flat bottom, diffuser, whatever else) will make a big performance improvement in these cars. And, a -0.5 modification factor is not as much of a burden in ST2 where most of these cars will likely compete than in ST1. Remember, this is the first year with these rules. We can always make adjustments to the modification factors for the non-Production/Tube-frame cars in '08 if we find that we missed the mark.

 

Now the Panoz GTS cars are clearly ST1 cars as built and delivered. I'm curious as to what the actual Dynojet numbers are going to be on these, but the Panoz site is listing the latest model as having 445 bhp/440 ft-lbs to the flywheel. But is also says 430 hp in the text on the same page. http://www.panozauto.com/EsperanteGTSDetails.htm#Performance

The cars have a curb weight of 2680 lbs, and a competition weight in their spec class of 2880 lbs. They also run on non-DOT Pirelli slicks. They have a large 32 gallon fuel cell, so losing weight should not be an issue. So, even in the worst case scenario, with the car weighing 2880 lbs, and only putting out 375 rwhp on a Dynojet, and running on DOT approved tires, the adjusted wt/power ratio would still be 7.1:1. Now, if they can actually put down 390 hp to the wheels, and weigh 2801 lbs, using the slicks they come with, they would be at an adjusted wt/power ratio of 5.8:1.

Edited January 16, 2007 by Guest

[DanElam]

Thanks. I appreciate you sharing your thought process that the 'aero mod' is about a lot more than aero. Based on laptimes though, I don't see Panoz being able to remotely compete in ST-1 which is why I figured guys would go for the configs to get into ST-2.

 

In any case, I understand it takes time to sort these things out. The Panoz guys will find their way - just as we will if/when we run the FFR Coupe.

[Greg G.]

I was wondering what the differences are between the ALMS Panoz GT2's and the Panoz GTS spec cars, because those GT2's are very fast with the ALMS drivers.

[TexaST-1]

Trans Am vs Spec

[Greg G.]

Trans Am vs Spec

 

Must be big power and light weight on top of big bucks

 

I'm surprised that the Panoz GTS times that I saw for Road Atlanta aren't a little closer to the WCGT times, though. But, I would imagine that there is a decent "driver factor" built in there?

[TexaST-1]

I think with the Panoz, like most cars, it really depends on the driver. I think an average Panoz would not fall out of the range of ST-2. However, I think a well "Prepared" Panoz can be a mid pack car in ST-1 or a class killer in ST-2.

 

I think the Panoz is a "Tweener" Class car.