Help the FWD Scion Driver

[UHSAE]

Howdy,

I've done 3 DE's at various clubs in Texas at TWS (none of them with NASA though I want to).

 

I drive an '06 Scion tC with coilovers and a rear sway. I've got a set of track wheels and I run Fuzion ZRi's (which are junk, but really great bang for the buck).

 

After my last DE I found myself frustrated. I'm solo cleared in blue group, though I don't know if the run groups are the same across the different clubs. I'm being overtaken by EVERYONE. It just seems like I can't run with the pack in my group. I think I find myself frustrated with the plowing nature of the car. I talked in depth with my instructor and the head instructor of the last group I was with(the Driver's Edge). One told me that I was at the limits of my car and the other told me to modify it... is it really feasible that I've limited my car already? I really don't feel like I have that much experience.

 

I guess I'm looking for some encouragement here. I need FWD success stories haha. Does any one else track a tC?

[07SiSpeed]

I don't track a TC but I am tracking my '07 SI for the first time in March so i will let you know

[berny2435]

I'm replying coming from a driver with about the same experience as you but with a car that has much more potential the way it sits.. .

I dont think you are at the limits of your car. And I'm saying this with only the knowledge you have provided.

 

I think you are at or near the limits of your current SETUP. You have "LIMITED" yours car capabilites. It and you can be faster.

 

Fuzion tires?? - limiting factor to braking, coner entry and exit speed.

 

Brakes?? - you mention nothing about them. Breaking deep can gain back the distance faster cars put on you on the straights. I should know, many Porsches, BMWs, V8s are close to me at the end of a straight, further away when I come out of corners.

 

I reccomend upgrading tires and brake fluid and brake compounds and get back out there!

 

The best tire for the money with the most grip is going to be a Falken TR-615. If you want better all around/wet drivability, look into Hankook Ventus RS2 200 treadwear tires. For HPDEs and going fast, you gotta have mechanical tire grip, try to select a tire for yourself that has a rating b/t 140-340 to suit your needs.. .

 

Remember this though - "Tires talk.. . If Street tires ain't squeelin, you ain't giving them enough Hell"

 

right now, my power surpasses my tires mechanical grip but my cornering speed and technique have not. I don't make my tires squeel every turn but when I do make them squeel, and I'm going faster than I have on that turn before, it feels damn good!!!

[berny2435]

if you wanna stop fast, consistant and get on those V8s arses, call these companies up for brake reccomendations

 

PADS

http://www.cobaltfriction.com/

http://www.ctbrakes.com/overview.html

 

Brake Upgrades

http://fastbrakes.com/shop/index.php?cPath=33&osCsid=765346630800340de9aa8c328f9af9b7

 

I understand if you don't want to do engine mods to go faster or do the loud exhaust or strip the interior thing.

 

The only way I C you getting faster around the ring is improving your technique and improving your cars handeling with tires, brakes and suspension.. .

 

My car has 210whp and with driver weighs 2480lbs - I'm not upgrading anymore power, I'm adding roll cage for safety and rigidity, seats for better driver position/safety/light weight, changing stock bushings for harder ones for better feel and turning, upgrading tires and suspension components for more traction.

 

"YOU GOTTA PAY TO PLAY!"

[kbrew8991]

grip goes a long way my friend

 

scratch that, in 3 trackdays... you're still learning. Get an instructor to ride with ya and see what kind of tips they can give you to work on.

 

HPDE is not a race anyway....

Edited February 16, 2007 by Guest

[ExRacer]

UHSAE get out there and get more input from instructors with race licenses. Not any skin off the other guidance you've received, but not knowing what a "blue group" is within the NASA scheme limits our input. Our HPDE3 guys are sometimes quite slow at the beginning of Saturday and 4-5 seconds faster by Sunday. So focus on your ability and technique, not a bunch of add-ons to make your car faster or stronger.

 

Note: I took a less than 190hp 3,300 pound car to the National Championship. It's called the Tank cause it's heavy and not very high horsepower. Learn to drive the car you have at its limits by extending your own by practicing good driving habits.

 

With more time, please detail where you think you are getting whacked on the track, approaching corners, turn-in, apexing, appling power on exit, tracking out and on what track. Then we can give you more appropriate guidance.

[Alan_Wolfe]

I've run both NASA-NE track events and with TDE after I moved to Texas last July. I ran in HPDE 3 with NASA-NE and I run in the Yellow group with TDE. The blue group is analogous to HPDE 2.

 

I can't believe you've maxed the car out either. You mentioned coil-overs. Has your car been corner weighted? Slapping on coil-overs without corner weighting the car can turn it into an ill handling POS. Otherwise, concentrate on your instruction. I am very impressed with the program TDE runs. I also agree concentrating on suspension to get a neutral car should be your first priority.

 

FYI - I run a 2003 MINI Cooper S. Stock motor except for 15% reduction pulley. Stock suspension except for camber plates & H-sport rear sway bar. I've also upgraded rotors and pads. There are several of us MINIs in the Yellow group and we don't run at the back either. In fact there are two MINIs in the red run group (HPDE4).

 

You can always sell the Scion and buy a MINI

 

Alan

 

p.s. Were you at the TWS event Dec 9th & 10th with TDE? I was the British Racing Green / Black MINI #331.

[UHSAE]

Thank you very much for all the replies.

 

Regarding the brakes: I experienced really bad brake fade on my last DE (stock pads, fluid, lines), and have since swapped out the lines for stainless steel braided ones and DOT 4 fluid (not 5, because the shop didn't have any).

 

Corner weighting?? Uhh, sadly this hadn't even crossed my mind. Where can I get this done, and what should my objective be in the process? What are the effects? thank you again for all the help.

 

-Phillip

[Frank Corkran]

Regarding the brakes: I experienced really bad brake fade on my last DE (stock pads, fluid, lines), and have since swapped out the lines for stainless steel braided ones and DOT 4 fluid (not 5, because the shop didn't have any).

 

If you experienced fade (push harder but little slowing), that's due to the stock pads. Get something better. If the pedal suddenly sank to the floor, you boiled the stock fluid. No big surprise, after only a couple months most fluids will have absorbed enough moisture from the air to drastically lower the fluid boiling point. Don't use DOT 5 fluid, that's silicone-based fluid and is pretty much only for show cars (doesn't eat the paint). DOT 5.1 is OK though, it's compatible with DOT 3/4 fluid and stock braking systems and has a minimum dry boiling point of 500* F. Universally available (at most parts stores) and cheap fluids good for a street/occasional track car are Valvoline Syntech and Castrol LMA. The Valvoline in particular maintains a fairly high wet boiling point for extended street use. If you only go to the track a couple times a year, flush the system with fresh fluid before every event. And even if you only want to maintain the braking system components in top shape for street use you should flush the system with fresh fluid every 1-2 years max. Brake fluid should look like water (except the colored race fluid), not like Pepsi.

[getfast]

I can't believe you've maxed the car out either. You mentioned coil-overs. Has your car been corner weighted? Slapping on coil-overs without corner weighting the car can turn it into an ill handling POS. Otherwise, concentrate on your instruction. I am very impressed with the program TDE runs. I also agree concentrating on suspension to get a neutral car should be your first priority.

 

Agreed. Putting aside the whole "three DE's is usually nowhere near enough seat time to be maxing-out any car" concept, neutral or slightly oversteering is what you want with FWD (and tC's understeer a lot in stock form.) So I'd love to know from the thread starter...

 

How much bigger than stock is your rear swaybar?

 

What spring rates are you running, and at what height?

 

What dampers did you get (or did you just put coil-overs on stock shocks/struts?)

 

Did you cut the bump-stops?

 

Are you sure you're not bottoming out because you're too low?

 

What have you done for alignment?

 

Do you have camber plates?

 

How does the wear on the front tires look?

 

 

Trying to help,

 

Jon

(very little tC experience, but I used to play with Sentra SE-R's)

[Alan_Wolfe]

Thank you very much for all the replies.

 

Regarding the brakes: I experienced really bad brake fade on my last DE (stock pads, fluid, lines), and have since swapped out the lines for stainless steel braided ones and DOT 4 fluid (not 5, because the shop didn't have any).

 

Corner weighting?? Uhh, sadly this hadn't even crossed my mind. Where can I get this done, and what should my objective be in the process? What are the effects? thank you again for all the help.

 

-Phillip

 

Try these folks:

 

http://www.fifthgear.biz/about.htm

 

They specialize in porsche, but should be able to corner weight your car. The goal of corner weighting is to equalize the weight carried by each wheel from side to side and also to equalize the weight carried by each set of diagonal wheels (left front/right rear ...). Without this being done your car may be kinda like a four legged chair with each leg just a little bit different length. Doesn't make for a very friendly car when driven hard.

 

Good Luck,

 

Alan

[UHSAE]

I can't believe you've maxed the car out either. You mentioned coil-overs. Has your car been corner weighted? Slapping on coil-overs without corner weighting the car can turn it into an ill handling POS. Otherwise, concentrate on your instruction. I am very impressed with the program TDE runs. I also agree concentrating on suspension to get a neutral car should be your first priority.

 

Agreed. Putting aside the whole "three DE's is usually nowhere near enough seat time to be maxing-out any car" concept, neutral or slightly oversteering is what you want with FWD (and tC's understeer a lot in stock form.) So I'd love to know from the thread starter...

 

How much bigger than stock is your rear swaybar?

 

What spring rates are you running, and at what height?

 

What dampers did you get (or did you just put coil-overs on stock shocks/struts?)

 

Did you cut the bump-stops?

 

Are you sure you're not bottoming out because you're too low?

 

What have you done for alignment?

 

Do you have camber plates?

 

How does the wear on the front tires look?

 

 

Trying to help,

 

Jon

(very little tC experience, but I used to play with Sentra SE-R's)

 

My new rear sway is 22mm and set at the middle setting. I intend to change it to the stiffest setting before I got to the next session, but I didn't want to initially because I was afraid that it was going to make the car unpredictible.

 

I'm running H&R coilovers. They do not release their spring rate, but they are race springs, not show springs. They came with struts, so they're designed together. I didn't touch the bump stops. The ride height was set to 1" gap betweent he wheels and the fender, but the springs were fairly new then so they've sinced settled (which I'll fix before the next DE).

 

I don't think I was bottoming out. I didn't notice it and my instructor didn't either. I suppose we could have missed it. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think so, but I can't be sure because I don't have enough experience.

 

I'm running stock alignment. No camber plates on my car. (They're just starting to release them for the tC).

 

The wear on the front tires is pretty terrible. The outside edges are bald, most of the rest of the tire looks brand new. This happened both when I ran the car stock and after I swapped the suspension.

 

Alan, I'll work on getting the car corner weighted.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Phillip

[getfast]

Thanks for the info. I'd say... raise the car back up to like a 1" drop then cornerbalance it, stiffen the rear as much as you can (swaybar or damper stiffness if possible), and get camber plates ASAP. Dial in at least a few degrees of negative camber and set the toe to zero. If your car still understeers, keep stiffening the rear until it doesn't (more bar, more spring, whatever.) And drive, drive, drive... as many DE's as you can possibly afford, working on smoothness and not overdriving the front of the car (i.e. doing whatever you can to keep from getting a lot of understeer.)

 

All IMHO of course. Good luck!

 

Jon

[Frank Corkran]

And drive, drive, drive... as many DE's as you can possibly afford, working on smoothness and not overdriving the front of the car (i.e. doing whatever you can to keep from getting a lot of understeer.)

 

There you go. No matter how slow you have to enter the turns, slow down enough to avoid major understeer at turn-in. If you don't, you'll just overheat the outside front tire and it'll only get worse. To go fast, you must learn patience.

[berny2435]

I reccomend using Castrol SRF if you have the money to spend on fluid.. .

 

drain the system, put SRF in, bleed, don't touch it all year and I mean don't touch it.. . no bleeding, no nothing. you will not boil SRF

 

This is a reccomendation that I have gotten from a few from NASA honda challenge racers.. .

 

I currently use AP racing 5.1 synthetic and Carbotech XP8 race pads. I'm switching to Satisfied GS3 gransport front pads and Castrol SRF this year. I don't plan on having to do maintenance on my brakes all year and that is even with occasional daily driving.

[getfast]

Castrol SRF is great stuff, but not worth 5x the cost of Ate Super Blue (or similar) for a HPDE car IMHO. And it only takes a few minutes to bleed brakes when a car is already in the air for an oil change or pre-tech.

 

Jon

[berny2435]

Castrol SRF is great stuff, but not worth 5x the cost of Ate Super Blue (or similar) for a HPDE car IMHO. And it only takes a few minutes to bleed brakes when a car is already in the air for an oil change or pre-tech.

 

Jon

 

The main reason that some HC drivers use the SRF and choose not to bleed their system after every track day is for Feel.. . Bleed it once in the begining and leave it and you aquire a feel/consistancy that is held. Once you bleed again and again, you have a different feel.. . You can adapt but I think consistancy is a good thing.

 

The fluid is real expensive but brakes and tires are the most important thing on the car except for the bobbing head attached to the wheel.. .

 

I don't think the average joe need SRF and I agree that ATE Super Blue is good product and should be the "Minimum" quality of fluid used for HPDE and etc.. .

 

Copied from a thread in the Honda-tech road racing forum

i am engineer at Brembo Racing North America, and im here to tell you there is more to determining the correct brake fluid for your application than a max wet/dry boiling point.

 

We run tests of all fluids on a quarterly basis on our brake dynos, and 'project mu' is and never has been in the top three of any of the performance tests run...and hell, sometimes the brembo stuff isnt either. I rarely reccomend it, even to professional teams. Castrol is also another 'iffy' proposition, as it does indeed have a high boiling point, but its recovery time is almost non existant (read: if you fry the brakes, your race is over) You would be surprised how little the fluid has to do with brake issues...and if you are boiling it in your honda on a lappingf day / sprint race you need to correct other issues.

 

Some fluids that are good all around and are consistently great performers include:

 

Ap racing

Ford heavy duty synth (the metal can version, also available at the dealer. ask for fluid for a ford focus)

Castrol, but not worth the cost if you have other issues 'see above'

ATE super blue/gold is ok as well....consistently a top ten performer all around

 

I hope that helps some people. Notice I didnt pimp any of our chit in this post

 

Nick

 

 

ARRANGED BY DRY BOILING POINT:

 

DRY:401F -- WET:284F --- DOT3 MINIMUM (GLYCOL BASE)

DRY:446F -- WET:311F --- DOT4 MINIMUM (GLYCOL BASE)

DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5 MINIMUM (SILICONE BASE)

DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5.1 MINIMUM (GLYCOL BASE)

DRY:500F -- WET:???F --- FORD HEAVY DUTY DOT 3 PM-1C (new since 2006)

DRY:527F -- WET:302F --- AP RACING 551 ($12.95/0.5L OR 16.9 OZ)

DRY:527F -- WET:347F --- VALVOLINE SYNPOWER DOT3 & DOT4

DRY:536F -- WET:388F --- ATE SUPERBLUE/TYP200 ($9.95/1L)

DRY:550F -- WET:284F --- FORD HEAVY DUTY DOT 3 PM-1 (pre 2006) ($4/12 OZ)

DRY:570F -- WET:284F --- WILWOOD 570 ($5.65/12 OZ)

DRY:570F -- WET:284F --- PERFORMANCE Friction Z rated ($6.27/16 OZ)

DRY:572F -- WET:410F --- AP RACING 600 ($16.95/0.5L OR 16.9 OZ)

DRY:590F -- WET:518F --- CASTROL SRF ($69.00/1L 0R 33.8 OZ)

DRY:593F -- WET:421F --- MOTUL RBF600 ($12.95/0.5L OR 16.9 OZ)

DRY:601F -- WET:399F --- BREMBO LCF 600 PLUS ($26.75/0.5L OR 16.9 OZ)

DRY:608F -- WET:390F --- AP RACING 660 ($28.99/0.5L OR 16.9 OZ)

DRY:610F -- WET:421F --- NEO SYNTHETICS SUPER DOT 610 ($11.95/12 OZ)

DRY:626F -- WET:417F --- QUADRIGA/PROSPEED GS610 ($14.99/16 OZ)

DRY:626F -- WET:417F --- WILWOOD EXP 600 ($16.95/0.5L 16.9 OZ)

DRY:635F -- WET:430F --- PROJECT MU G/FOUR 335 ($45.00/1.0L 33.8 OZ)

 

ARRANGED BY WET BOILING POINT:

 

DRY:500F -- WET:???F --- FORD HEAVY DUTY DOT 3 PM-1C (new since 2006)

DRY:401F -- WET:284F --- DOT3 MINIMUM

DRY:570F -- WET:284F --- WILWOOD 570

DRY:570F -- WET:284F --- PERFORMANCE Friction Z rated

DRY:550F -- WET:284F --- FORD HEAVY DUTY DOT 3

DRY:527F -- WET:302F --- AP RACING 551

DRY:446F -- WET:311F --- DOT4 MINIMUM

DRY:527F -- WET:347F --- VALVOLINE SYNPOWER DOT3 & DOT4

DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5.1 MINIMUM (GLYCOL BASE)

DRY:500F -- WET:356F --- DOT5 MINIMUM (SILICONE BASE)

DRY:536F -- WET:388F --- ATE SUPERBLUE/TYP200

DRY:608F -- WET:390F --- AP RACING 660

DRY:601F -- WET:399F --- BREMBO LCF 600 PLUS

DRY:572F -- WET:410F --- AP RACING 600

DRY:626F -- WET:417F --- WILWOOD EXP 600

DRY:626F -- WET:417F --- QUADRIGA/PROSPEED GS610

DRY:593F -- WET:421F --- MOTUL RBF600

DRY:610F -- WET:421F --- NEO SYNTHETICS SUPER DOT 610

DRY:635F -- WET:430F --- PROJECT MU G/FOUR 335

DRY:590F -- WET:518F --- CASTROL SRF

[UHSAE]

I meant to ask this as well in regards to DE's.

 

I've read Skip Barber's "Go Faster". In the beginning of the book the head instructor outlines the basic techniques of performance driving. One of the key things I've noticed is that he insists on doing most of your braking in a striaght line, but not necessarily ALL of it. I suppose this gets into light trail braking.

 

When I've driven, the instructions I received were do ALL of the braking before turn in and then as you turn in, get back on the gas lightly to "stabilize the car". Any merit to this? Should I begin to experiment with trail braking soon?

 

It seems to me that this would help in getting the tail of the car to rotate some (if not way to much) assuming the brake balance is set up properly.

 

Thoughts?

[berny2435]

I meant to ask this as well in regards to DE's.

 

When I've driven, the instructions I received were do ALL of the braking before turn in and then as you turn in, get back on the gas lightly to "stabilize the car". Any merit to this? Should I begin to experiment with trail braking soon?

 

It seems to me that this would help in getting the tail of the car to rotate some (if not way to much) assuming the brake balance is set up properly.

 

Thoughts?

 

Trail braking can get you introuble if not done correctly. I've experienced this and not always intensionally. I'm a rookie just like you and I get away with it on my car but like yours, my car is pretty neutral to slight oversteer. Typically not the fastest setup for FWD cars.

 

I've read a lot about braking and brakes. The fastest way around the track is to be either on the gas or on the brake 100% of the time. No coasting. Trail braking plays two parts in my game.

1.) letting me go deeper into corners with braking

2.) allows the rear to rotate

 

My FWD car has pretty good power and I can also make the car oversteer abit by lifting the throttle. This basically requires being on the gas around the whole turn. Most of the time I try to settle the car before corner entry as you stated with the Skip Barber line but it is hard to do that all the time. I especially try to settle the car on turn in on high speed turns. I tend to trail brake on the lower speed turns where I'm getting down into 2nd gear.

 

One difference b/t your car and mine is that I probably do a lot more shifter than you with my 6spd and close ratio gearing. I'm going from 5th to 3 and 4th to 2nd a lot. I hit each gear on the way down with heal-toe technique which makes it more difficult to be consistent with braking technique. Practice makes perfect though so I always heal-toe even if it is just one gear change.

 

Do you heal-toe? Is your peddle setup comfortable for it?

 

I'd reccomend flirting with it at some AutoX events first before taking it to the track. Find some local Solo days and give it a whirl!

[UHSAE]

Well, my car isn't neutral at all and I've only experienced oversteer in it one time, and that was after I had lost it in the fast sweeper at TWS and I was fully on the brakes.

 

I can revmatch and downshift fine, the pedals are a bit unresponsive in the tC (especially the gas), so there's a bit of play before I get some rpms. This makes it a bit tricky, but on other cars I do it very consistently. I really don't like drive by wire at all.

[berny2435]

Well, my car isn't neutral at all and I've only experienced oversteer in it one time, and that was after I had lost it in the fast sweeper at TWS and I was fully on the brakes.

 

I can revmatch and downshift fine, the pedals are a bit unresponsive in the tC (especially the gas), so there's a bit of play before I get some rpms. This makes it a bit tricky, but on other cars I do it very consistently. I really don't like drive by wire at all.

 

So it sounds like you are still understeering most of the time.

 

In your case, you should be fine with a bit of trail braking every now and then. Do you get torque steer much?

 

When I punch the gas around cornes a lil much I tend to push on left handers more than I do on right handers (No LSD). Remeber that also a slight gas peddle lift should help bring the rear around a bit as well.

 

Can you adjust your coilovers for more rebound in the rear (make more stiff)? You can also try to lower the front of the car more for more weight/bite in the front. I suggest getting on scales to do the height thing though.

 

I suggest finding out if the valving on the rear shock can handle extra spring rate (100#s). If it can, find some higher rate springs that can fit and try those out. Bring both sets of springs to the track just in case. 100#s might not even be enough to make it significatly more neutral or to the point of consistent oversteer.

 

FYI - Hondas that race typically use these principles.

1.) a FWD car setup to understeer is slow

2.) Use more rear spring rate than front but not more than 20% larger in rear to stay within spring rate frequencies front to rear, corner to corner.

3.) OR, Use less spring rate REAR and add chasis stiffness and HUGE rear sway bar rear.

 

If your coilover manufacturer does not suggest going with higher rear spring rates, you can try to find a larger rear sway and add a rear strut tower bar.

 

You can also play swith your Tire pressures as well. Add more tire pressure rear to acheive better rotation. It is not suggested to run over +/- 5 PSI if using the same tire size both front and rear.

 

Try to mark your tires front and rear with White shoe polish. Watch how much they rolling over. Play with the pressures to get a good point of roll over and for rotation.

 

Tires are just another spring on your car. The more PSI, the stiffer the car among other things.

[UHSAE]

I think that's a good plan. The coilover manufacturer I have doesn't suggest adding more spring rate to the car, but I'd be willing to bet that they have higher rate springs in the same size. Just takes a little talking to.

 

The sway bar I have right now is the thickest on the market. I don't have it set to the tightest setting, but I will certainly for next time.

 

In regards to the chassis stiffness in the rear: tC's have a common problem of creaks, groans and moans coming from the rear of the car. They come standard with a big heavy glass roof, and I think it seriously upsets the chassis. The roof creaks and pops as does the rear on uneven ground. (My car has 20k miles and is a year and a half old). This makes myself and many other Scion drivers think that the rear of the car flexes a LOT, which among other nuisances, causes some problems when handling. I'm sure a rear strut brace would help some, but the only way I see to really cure the problem is the replace the stupid roof with a CF roof and put in a roll cage. People have done this with very good result.

 

Unfortunately, the roof is a thousand dollars without install, and a roll cage is not practical for me right now.

 

Based on that would a strut tower bar be a very wise investment? would you go so far as to getting a custom one build (I have access to welding and a machine shop) in order to make it as strong as possible?

 

-Phillip

[berny2435]

Based on that would a strut tower bar be a very wise investment? would you go so far as to getting a custom one build (I have access to welding and a machine shop) in order to make it as strong as possible?

 

-Phillip

 

I wouldn't spend much on a rear strut bar unless it is a proven PERFORMACE peice out there.. . proven as in other racers think it is a must have or yada yada yada

 

Before going to far with fabrication ideas I'd take a look at these pages

http://www.emracing.com/products.html

This site triangulates the rear end. Stiffens up the car pretty good I hear.

 

This is more of a basic trangulated design

http://www.passwordjdm.com/product.asp?numRecordPosition=10&P_ID=1562&strPageHistory=&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=374

 

If you want to make something that will help the top of the car fronm flexing so much, try to make a bar that bolts into where your C pillar Seat belts bolt up. Us Honda Guys are lucky that we have so much support out there for crazy aftermarket peice like these.

 

Good luck!

[UHSAE]

I shot EMRacing an email just to open a topic about it. Waitin on a response.

[scion tcx]

The best rear brace I've seen is from Corsport, it's the only 4-point bolt-on rear strut brace I've seen:

 

http://www.corsportusa.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=64_66&products_id=715

 

Other companies that make a rear strut brace:

Greddy

Monster Motorworks

 

 

And here is the C pillar brace:

 

http://www.corsportusa.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1376