Jump to content

OIL - A poll of the willing rabble


NorrFam

Recommended Posts

Taking a very unscientific poll on the subject of oil. Have trekked through several stores etc. (like we all do) recently and find that everyones oil is the best in the world. At least according to the labels on the bottles. So will entertain your thoughts on this subject.

 

The Car: HPDE 2 car still driven on the street several times a week but not a total daily driver. modular 4.6, 74K miles, manual tran if that makes any difference.

 

Synthetic or blend or not? 5w-20 or 20w-50 and all the grades in between, Lucas, AMSoil, Mobil 1, Havoline, etc.

 

Weigh in & tell me why use that oil to support your what oil to use.

 

If you want to kibbitz on the filter as well, feel free. From FRAM to K&N.

 

 

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would run a 5w30 or 25 Redline or Royal Purple full synthetic oil and a K&N filter, more power, heat and wear protection for cheap.

k&n oil filters are garbage. expensive but not good for filtering

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hondas seem to love the Mobil 1, 5w30 and 0w40. And the honda motors get HOT! when racing.. . Close to 280-300C. My motor only has 15,000 miles on it but the oil never comes out dirty after HPDEs.. .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mobil1 with Mobil1 or Bosch filters. I have also used the Fram RACING fiilters. Synthetics far outperform natural oils in shear strength and reisistance to breakdown with the heat and stress of a race engine. When you are pushing your vehicle on a race track, that's what you're doing, no matter your HPDE level or car. The comment on pressure drop is valid and you need to check flow and temp of your oil. My assumption is you are using an external cooler already. Used to run a double NASCAR filter and was told that is overkill.

 

There are other valid opinions, but I have had no failures related to engines in 5 years of hard-core racing with these products.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only reason I'm responding to an oil thread is b/c we run the same engine, mines an 01 4.6L 4v. I run 5w-30 Mobile 1 w/ a Ford FL-1HP filter (I have an oil filter relocation kit). I also get my oil checked by Blackstone. I run the oil 3-4 events then change it and send it off. Every time I have received the results back Blackstone tells me the oil is in perfect condition and I should run it even longer. I will not say I get 5 more HP from Mobile 1 or anything like that, but it works for me. I use to save the oil and put it in my beater, until the alt blew and the starter went out and I gave it away.

 

Fram and K&N Filters are junk, I've cut them open and looked in them, the Motorcraft and Purelator filters seem to do a pretty good job, the FL1-HP is a high volumn version of the FL-1A 5.0 filter which filters less but keeps the pressures high (important on the 4.6L as you can imagine). It has a few less 'layers' than the FL-1A but according to blackstone still gets the job done.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Id like to see this keep going if folks will respond. Obviously no consensus to this point.

Note: I was giving the Fram and K&N filters the weight test at the auto parts temple the other nite and the KN is much heavier and looking at the graphics seems to be a fairly complicated filtering process. It does cost almost 3 times the base Fram. Or Purolator etc.

I will say I have always avoided oil company (exxon, shell etc) oils due to high parafin contents in the past. Not sure how that applies anymore and I have not used synthetics to date. Have used Penzzoil or Castrol whenever I changed it. But now using this particular car for a different purpose and figure plain ol 10W-30 wont cut it.

 

Keep those cards and letters coming. The reasoning is as important as the product name.

 

PN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you had you oil tested? After your typical maintenance cycle send a sample to this guys- you will get information on how your chosen oil is standing up as well as insight to your engine condition.

 

edit.. bit late on my post. For the record Mobil 1 with OEM or bosch filter. I run this in an audi with a 1.8T.

 

http://www.blackstone-labs.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i use purolater filters on my 8, after seeing all the surveys and reviews on BISOG i choose that and Castrol GTX for my rx8. Just seems to be a good combination

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aren't the mod motors recommended to run 5w20?

 

Although I have a 302based motor, I run Mobil 1 in it with a Mobil 1 filter. Daily driver and a couple OT events a year. Performs great in my opinion. No oil consumption during regular driving, and uses half a quart for a 2 day OT event. 50K miles on the money pit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The traffic has slowed down but what I get is a definite leaning toward synthetic oil with Mobil 1 mentioned more than others. Filters seem to be all around but again Mobil 1 got more than one mention. K&N and Fram got dissed.

 

Not too much mention of oil weight. I was curious to see that 5 and 10 weights were thrown in the ring but not 20. Even Lucas Synthetic was on the shelf at 20W-50 so its absence was noted.

 

Being a relative newbie just wanted to draw on the experience of folks who had been running their car hard for some time. 10W-30 Penzoil/Castrol and a Fram or Purolator filter have served me well for years in a "passenger" car. Being that this is a quite a bit different way of driving I didnt think the status quo would work well.

 

Your thoughts are appreciated and if someone else wants to jump in with their 2 cents. Go for it.

 

Thanks for the tip on oil testing and the site. Have already ordered a kit.

 

PN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh boy, I love threads like this.....First off, the whole 5w-20 debate is nothing more than automakers trying to help their CAFE (federal) status. See, what they found is that the 5w-20 as opposed to 5w-30 increased fuel mileage by .002 percent PER automobile. Now, as a car owner, that increase means NOTHING, but as a manufacturer, that figure multiplied by the MILLIONS of cars produced each year adds up to quite a hefty figure. That is why they did it. There are NO benefits of using 5w-20 over 5w-30 and Ford and Honda can NOT void your warranty if you choose the latter. Now, the whole Synthetic/Dyno (conventional) debate has been going on for decades. In 1995, I had sponsorship from Torco Racing Oils. At my engine dyno session, the Torco showed a 2 HP increase (not much) BUT, here is why I believe in Syn oil.....The oil temp was 25 degrees cooler than using Dyno oil.

I own a 2004 Mustang GT and have been running MOBIL 1 5w-30 since it had 1,200 miles. My recommendations on filters was and always will be whatever the manufacturer uses. IE, AC Delco in GM cars, Motorcraft in Ford Genuine Toyota and Honda filters etc...

Over the counter filters, Puroilator hands down. Fram needs to go out of business.

As far as conventional oils go, Castrol has the field covered. They contain the least amount of Parafin Wax. Wax is no good for cars or motor oils and I don't know why oil manufacturers continue to use it. Pennzoil and Quaker State contain the highest quantity of Wax so if you have a consumption problem, STAY AWAY from those oils.

 

Here is a great unbiased review of oil filters:

 

http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

 

So, to answer your original question, Mobil 1 or Castrol GTX 5w-30 with a Motorcraft 820s.

 

and Chad....it is MOBIL not MOBILE!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok Now thats a good answer and the filter web site, while dated, is good reading. Can see why Mike picks Mobil 1 and Motorcraft. Looked to see what dealer put on mine when I bought the car used and it was Motorcraft FL1. Dont know what oil. Change is due which contributed to the question coming up.

 

Looks like Im headed for the Mobil 1 rack unless someone can bump me off my line at the corner (of the aisle).

 

Thnks again for all input.

 

PN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I run Red Line 20w50 in my car. Why? I see well past 300 deg. oil temperatures and according to the data sheets that I saw for the different choices, this was one of the few oils that could handle these temperatures.

 

I used to run Mobil 1 (and still do in my street cars) and I notice that with Mobil 1 I see varnish on the dipstick and I think it is safe to assume that the same varnish is appearing elsewhere inside the engine. Many people more knowledgeable than me love and use Mobil 1.

 

I use the K&N Oil Filter because that 1" nut welded to the case makes it easy to install/remove.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The engine is designed for a specific viscosity of oil because of its clearances, granted you may not want 5w-20, but 20w-50 is too thick for most engines and let's not forget that this is costing you power as well, and will greatly increase cold start wear.

 

Thicker oil actually increases oil temperatures. You should be getting an oil cooler, not running different oil. Oil temps ideally would stay around 180-200.

 

I have now been told that Mobil 1 is no longer a true Group IV synthetic but is a hydrocracked Group III type, which can technically be called a "synthetic" but it is not as good as Group IV. Castrol Syntec is also a Group III. Redline is Group IV from what I know but is expensive of course. Amsoil is a true Group IV and they make oils specifically for racing as well.

 

The viscosity number you should be most concerned with is the lower number, as this affects cold start the most. A 20w base oil is just too thick for most engines with tight bearings. The higher viscosity number can be quite high with a synthetic with no adverse affects, making oils such as 0w-40 and 15w-50, etc., possible, and this is what you should be concerned with in high performance use, as this is the viscosity of the oil at 100C or 212F approximately. Dino oils with large viscosity spreads do not handle heat as well, which could mean more deposits and for turbo car owners, shorter turbo life.

 

At the same time, consider that synthetics flow easier than dino oils, and so a thicker oil will not cause oil starvation and cold start wear as much as a dino oil of the same viscosity would.

 

300F oil temps are just way too hot! Thicker oil is not the answer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see my question has again raised itself for discussion. I ended up with Mobil 1 and Motorcraft 820 filter. No issues and dont expect any.

 

But I am trying to follow up on the responses and read the sites posted and hope others do as well.

 

In some ways Castrol/Mobil/Shell is sort of a Ford/Chevy/Dodge prefrence thing. You make the best educated choice you can and go with what takes care of you and dump it if it doesnt.

 

Thanks for considering the question.

 

Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a 21"x19" finned type oil cooler. I see these oil temps with the cooler. Yes this is a thick oil. However, as I stated, the technical documentation that I checked (admittedly 3 years ago) showed me that this was the only oil that could take the temperatures that my motor sees.

 

I used to also send my oil out to Blackstone Labs for routine analysis. Once the results were consistent, I stopped sending the samples out because it was a waste of money to be told what I already knew.

 

...heading into year 4 of racing without ever opening the motor... YMMV

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still think the oil temps are too high but if everything is good on the UOA then I guess it's not a problem. I respect your racing history and that you've had no failure. I don't really know what engine we're talking about so you may be entirely right. If you did UOAs and they showed up good, then that's all that matters. The only thing you stand to gain at that point is a minimal power increase from thinner oil, which may be insignificant and why fix it if it's not broken, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly, John. This is the original 111k mile LT1 V8 engine (see sig for car). I am the 4th owner, the 3rd to run the car in driving competition and the second to road race it.

 

Reduced power is not an issue since the CMC class has hp/tq limits. If I went to a thinner oil, I might see higher power which would require additional weight to offset the power. There is no gain in getting a hp bump (In fact, I run a restrictor plate on the engine to get down to max power).

 

I don't run this oil because I want to. I run this oil because I have to. Other oils will breakdown with these temperatures, assuring an engine failure. I have tried to troubleshoot the temperature problem and haven't found anything so I have concluded that it is just worn out. After 6 engine hours, the oil is as black as night. I change it and run some more.

 

I have always figured I was on borrowed time with this motor but it just keeps going. Like you said - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

I scored a quality complete replacement motor 2 weeks ago. Now if it fails, I have another motor to put in it. We'll see how long this one goes. As far as I am concerned, my old girl is a moving Red Line advertisement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... I run 5w-30 Mobile 1 w/ a Ford FL-1HP filter (I have an oil filter relocation kit). I also get my oil checked by Blackstone. I run the oil 3-4 events then change it and send it off. Every time I have received the results back Blackstone tells me the oil is in perfect condition and I should run it even longer. ... I use to save the oil and put it in my beater...

 

I agree. I run Mobil one because my wife picks it up for me at Cosco. It works well and is reasonably priced. I will continue to run it until someone GIVES me comparable oil for FREE. My Ford motorsport dealer supplies me FL-1A filters by the case. I also run the oil 3-4 weekends, dump it and save it for my daily beater.

 

I run an accusump as well as a temp gauge and monitor my oil pressure through out every session.

 

Paul: I didnt see you at the party sat-night. I hope everything went well for you on Sunday. Thanks for stopping by.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...