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HPDE with Drums on the rear, will I survive??


rppngears91

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Hey guys I have a fox body mustang, I have a rear disc upgrade kit but it looks like I will not be able to get it ready before this weekend!!! which stinks. Has anyone ever run with HPDE with drums on the rear? If so how bad is it??

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While my Mustang has discs all the way around, I don't see you having too much trouble with drums in the rear, especially in an HPDE. Most of your braking comes from the front brakes anyway. It wouldn't hurt to bring along extra brake pads in any case.

 

I say run it as is and have fun.

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I will def be having fun! hah. My drums pads are in decent shape, and so are my front pads, should I go buy an extra pair of pads for the front and rear or just the front?? Ill probably flush the brake system with some new fluid also. Does anyone know if there is a auto parts store close to VIR??

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question is relative to many things but as far as I know I have seen the stangs get buy on them as well as a few other RWD cars with drums.

 

I would get some upgraded pads rear. at least Axis or Hawks and make sure you have new fluid, pref DOT4. A local Advanced might have some sporty options.

 

There is actually quite a bit of demand in the rear of RWD car. not only stopping wheel/tire rotational mass and decelerating the mass of the car, but the brakes are also decelerating the engine, trans and driveline as well.

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Just drive it... the fronts do the majority of the work.

 

There are still a fair amount of race cars out there that run drums if you can believe it. Our 240Z (Pro Sedan/ITS) used drums, stock front rotors, etc and it hualed itself down from top end speed fairly well lap after lap.

 

 

Don't set you parking brake after coming off track, you may not get it undone....

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I'd bring along an extra set of pads for both the front and rear brakes. Some DOT 4 brake fluid and the tools to bleed the brakes wouldn't hurt either. At the very least, make sure you have enough brake pad remaining and fairly fresh brake fluid before you head out to the track. Also, make sure you have healthy tires. That is, tires that have ample tread left (especially the fronts) and are performance tires. All-season tires suck on the track.

 

Recently, I did an HPDE weekend at WSIR and wore down my front pads by about half just in those two days. In contrast, my rear pads didn't wear down much at all. But maybe that's just me.

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Check around in the HPDE threads. There have been several that listed products, their temp ratings etc. Believe it or not if you start at the top and work your way down the list its amzing how many questions are already asked and answered.

 

PN

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Don't worry about the rear drums. Even if you start out with the shoes adjusted up tight, after about 3 laps the pedal will get lower from the shoes wearing/heating. I ran for many years with rear drums on Mustangs, as do/have many others. The shoes last a long time compared to the front pads. At least the pedal won't go to the floor from rear pad knockback if you're TractionLock clutches are worn out. Even that's unlikely for a novice on street tires (not enough cornering load through the esses).

 

Is you're Fox Mustang an '87 or newer? If not, you have 10" front rotors stock - expect to overheat the front brakes at some point in that case.

 

Since you have so little time to educate yourself, just go to an Autozone and pick up a set of Performance Friction 431 (preferably 431Z if they have them in stock) front pads (for '87-93) and two bottles of Valvoline Synpower DOT3/4 brake fluid, or Castrol LMA if they are out of the Valvoline. A third choice is to stop by a Ford dealer and get Ford Heavy Duty brake fluid. I think one of the other big chains carries Hawk pads now as well. Avoid the store branded pads if possible. No matter how long you've had the pads on the car driving on the street, you will likely experience what's known as "green fade" during the first session that you really get the pads hot. Once they cool they'll be good to go. Make sure you flush the entire brake system with fresh fluid before the event, plus you'll probably want to do a quick bleed to clear overheated fluid from the calipers at the end of each day (or if you have to change pads).

 

Have fun and don't worry too much about it. Your instructor will ask you about your brakes (among other things) and take that into account. You're about to experience "the most fun you can have with your clothes on."

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I second the recommendation on bringing an extra set of front pads. VIR full course is not that tough on brakes. For the HPDE you really only have two serious braking points, turn 1 and turn 11. But the security of a spare set for the trip home is nice.

 

Not sure how old your rotors are, but it would not hurt to have a spare set of those.

 

Worse case, the Pro Shop at VIR carries ATE Blue brake fluid. There is an Advance Auto on the way into Danville, about 10 minutes from the track.

 

If you need any brake bleeding tools, look for the Purple Camaro in the HPDE paddock area. I have the Motive, Mighty Vac, etc with me.

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camaro_1le - I don't know, 17 can be a real need of some brakes, too.

 

I don't brake in 17 I brake getting into 16 and accelerate out of 17. If I have to hit the brakes in 17, I am in a lot of trouble.

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Can you run with drums? Sure! I did for my first 6 HPDE events. The bad thing is even though most drum brakes are "supposed" to be self-adjusting, they usually do not work that way.

 

Do you know how to adjust yours? If so I'd check them at least every other session. Drums hold in the heat which is their downfall. They will work better if adjusted properly.

 

Of course I switched to rear discs (as I'm sure you will in the future) but I've been known to "over do it". Afterall I have Covette ZR-1 brakes on a Chevy Cavailer. I'm not that fast, but I can sure as hell stop!

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camaro_1le - I don't know, 17 can be a real need of some brakes, too.

 

I don't brake in 17 I brake getting into 16 and accelerate out of 17. If I have to hit the brakes in 17, I am in a lot of trouble.

 

Ditto! If you're braking in 17 then you're going either going really slow or asking to find the wall with your car.

Edited by Guest
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Vincent, I just have to say I was impressed with your driving over the weekend. I saw your car and thought, "what the hell?" but then you proceeded to drive the wheels off it. So :thumbup: for you And ZR-1 brakes on the front, no wonder they looked so massive!

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Vincent, I just have to say I was impressed with your driving over the weekend. I saw your car and thought, "what the hell?" but then you proceeded to drive the wheels off it. So :thumbup: for you And ZR-1 brakes on the front, no wonder they looked so massive!

 

Thanks! Of course I get the "WTF, a Cavalier?" a lot on track so I'm used to it. I have a full suspension package, but the engine is a stock 2.4L Quad 4. I just try and drive it as hard and the tires (old Azenis) will let me. Since that isn't quite hard enough, I'll be on new Nitto NT-01s in March. Look for some even later braking with the rubber to make it happen.

 

BTW, since I'm new to this forum, I don't know who *you* are. What car were you in?

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I was the white Civic hatchback with the big #102 on the sides, with a CF hood in the instructor group. My name is Adam, by the way

 

One of the few cars I can even try to hang with in the instructor group...cool. I'll have to meet you in person if you'll be back at the next event in March.

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Yeah man, there were some fast cars out there with us. I did actually make you my primary target on Saturday, as our speeds were relatively similar I won't be at the March event unfortunately, but I'll be at Shenandoah in April hopefully, and back at VIR and Summit in June.

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Yeah man, there were some fast cars out there with us.

 

Um, like S. Hornish in that 911!? Damn that was a fast car! He almost took my numbers off when he passed me.

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