markseven Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Hey Guys, This question is for drivers that don't use their heel when 'heel & toeing', drivers that brake with the left part of the ball of their foot and blip the throttle with the right part of their foot: Do you keep your heel on the floorboard when you heel & toe, or do you lift it off the floorboard? TIA, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted March 20, 2007 National Staff Share Posted March 20, 2007 My heel is not on the floorboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrrracer Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Mine is not on the floorboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 I'm off the floorboard as well, but do whatever is comfortable and produces a smooth downshift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markseven Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Altima Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Unless your in a racecar or driver's ed, do some practice on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKZ24 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Mine is not on the floorboard. Ditto for me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasaregistrar Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Mine is not on the floorboard. Ditto for me as well. Me too...Don't think I could do it with my heel on the floor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markseven Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Mine is not on the floorboard. Ditto for me as well. Me too...Don't think I could do it with my heel on the floor I was sitting at a light trying to blip the throttle with a little control - I was trying to hit 3K consistently, and it helped if I braced my heel on the floorboard. That said, I don't know if my ankle is strong enough or if there is enough leverage to put the required pressure on the brake pedal to slow the car down quickly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKZ24 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 That said, I don't know if my ankle is strong enough or if there is enough leverage to put the required pressure on the brake pedal to slow the car down quickly... With your heel on the floor you'd be using your calf muscle to press the brake...not the best situation IMO. Also remember that the level of the brake pedal vs. the accelerator will be different when you are trying to stop from 100+MPH vs. sitting at a light. I'm sure you know this, but just in case you don't...the track is NOT the place to learn H&T! Practice on the street over, and over, and over, and over, and over. It takes quite a while to get good at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasaregistrar Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Mine is not on the floorboard. Ditto for me as well. Me too...Don't think I could do it with my heel on the floor I was sitting at a light trying to blip the throttle with a little control - I was trying to hit 3K consistently, and it helped if I braced my heel on the floorboard. That said, I don't know if my ankle is strong enough or if there is enough leverage to put the required pressure on the brake pedal to slow the car down quickly... I guess it depends on the car and the pedal arrangements. My car is an E30, it is way different in our Civic...I had to add a pedal cover on the throttle pedal so I could even hit it. Without it my foot slipped right into the space between the brake and the accelerator pedals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKZ24 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I guess it depends on the car and the pedal arrangements. My car is an E30, it is way different in our Civic...I had to add a pedal cover on the throttle pedal so I could even hit it. Without it my foot slipped right into the space between the brake and the accelerator pedals Very true! When I added pedal covers it took me three versions of placement to get the brake and accelerator ones right. Too close or too far and H&T doesn't work. IMO with stock pedals is damn near impossible to do it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 but do whatever is comfortable and produces a smooth downshift do whatever is comfortable and more importantly produces a smooth downshift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markseven Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 That said, I don't know if my ankle is strong enough or if there is enough leverage to put the required pressure on the brake pedal to slow the car down quickly... With your heel on the floor you'd be using your calf muscle to press the brake...not the best situation IMO. Also remember that the level of the brake pedal vs. the accelerator will be different when you are trying to stop from 100+MPH vs. sitting at a light. I'm sure you know this, but just in case you don't...the track is NOT the place to learn H&T! Practice on the street over, and over, and over, and over, and over. It takes quite a while to get good at it. VKZ24, yes, I will practice on the street and then, sometime next year, I will try it at an HPDE. My car is an E30 nasaregistrar, I have an '87 325is - I'll try it with my heel off the floor. Are you running a stock pedal setup? Smooth downshifts is the goal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UHSAE Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 So, I was never actually tought how to heel-toe by anyone, I kinda just started trying it on my own. I have always left my heel on the floor board and just bent my foot. I tried on the way home with my foot off the floor, and the first few were rough and lurchy, but after that it was smooth as glass. EXCELLENT. Learn something everyday. Phillip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasaregistrar Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 That said, I don't know if my ankle is strong enough or if there is enough leverage to put the required pressure on the brake pedal to slow the car down quickly... With your heel on the floor you'd be using your calf muscle to press the brake...not the best situation IMO. Also remember that the level of the brake pedal vs. the accelerator will be different when you are trying to stop from 100+MPH vs. sitting at a light. I'm sure you know this, but just in case you don't...the track is NOT the place to learn H&T! Practice on the street over, and over, and over, and over, and over. It takes quite a while to get good at it. VKZ24, yes, I will practice on the street and then, sometime next year, I will try it at an HPDE. My car is an E30 nasaregistrar, I have an '87 325is - I'll try it with my heel off the floor. Are you running a stock pedal setup? Smooth downshifts is the goal 87Is=My very favorite car..I wish I still had that one.... Yep, stock pedals.... Do you roll your foot to the right or do you pivot on the ball of the foot on the brake pedal and blip with the heel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markseven Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 87Is=My very favorite car..I wish I still had that one.... Yep, stock pedals.... Do you roll your foot to the right or do you pivot on the ball of the foot on the brake pedal and blip with the heel? Hi Sean, I believe I pivot the ball of my foot on the right edge of the brake pedal. Should I be rolling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasaregistrar Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 87Is=My very favorite car..I wish I still had that one.... Yep, stock pedals.... Do you roll your foot to the right or do you pivot on the ball of the foot on the brake pedal and blip with the heel? Hi Sean, I believe I pivot the ball of my foot on the right edge of the brake pedal. Should I be rolling? I really think it is a matter of comfort/preference. Do what feels right and gets the job done....it takes practice but will come to you and it will become unconscious after a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rook Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I find the more intentionally you do this, the easier it becomes. Had I known this in the beginning, I'd have gotten it much sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markseven Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 I find the more intentionally you do this, the easier it becomes. Had I known this in the beginning, I'd have gotten it much sooner. Yeah, I'm forcing myself to do this, when I remember, that is. I'm going to put a reminder of some sort on the dash... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rook Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Hate to say this as it sounds like bad advice but the more I need to slow down, the easier I find it to heel-toe. Highway offramps worked best for me. Just...for the love of god, don't do it at the speed I usually do lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavychevy Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 It's actually hard to learn heel toe on the street because as mentioned before you never apply full braking to downshift into another turn. But nonetheless you must try it anyways. My first time trying on the track was at Road Atlanta this weekend and I was braking hard for turn 1 and it came to me to blip. AND THERE IT WAS! I still only did it in some turns as I was running time trials and didnt have time to do things that didnt come naturally, but when I run a non competitive session I will practice it everywhere until it's just natural. I'm starting to do it more and more while driving on the street, it sounds good and is fun, and helps the clutch out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concentric Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 It's actually hard to learn heel toe on the street because as mentioned before you never apply full braking to downshift into another turn. But nonetheless you must try it anyways. My first time trying on the track was at Road Atlanta this weekend and I was braking hard for turn 1 and it came to me to blip. AND THERE IT WAS! I still only did it in some turns as I was running time trials and didnt have time to do things that didnt come naturally, but when I run a non competitive session I will practice it everywhere until it's just natural. I'm starting to do it more and more while driving on the street, it sounds good and is fun, and helps the clutch out as well. Dude, I am glad it worked out for you , but the SoCal HPDE RG 1 & 2 director warned us not to learn this on the track. I've been working on this on my daily commutes, and half the time I'm so focused on heel and toeing, that I'm driving worse than a woman in an SUV talking on a cell phone (that was a joke)... I can't imagine trying to learn this on the track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuperdave Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 With your heel on the floor you'd be using your calf muscle to press the brake...I think my heel is on the floor when I H/T and that I'm just using the muscles around my lower leg and ankle to press on the brake pedal and blip the gas. Otherwise it seems some bigger muscles (quads, hamstrings) would have to get involved in order to hold your foot suspended... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peerless Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I have been practicing in my 85' 325e for about a year now. I roll my foot over. My heel does not rest on the floor board. My brake pedal is almost perfectly even with the throttle pedal at moderate braking. Just a hair below the accelerater pedal under hard braking (on the street, enough to lock the front wheels at 45mph coming into a 90deg turn with a exit speed of about 25mph) I unfortunatly havent had my car on the track yet, but HT downshifting is becoming second nature. I hope it will be an asset and not a hinderance when I finally make it to the track. Also, when practicing on the street, be very aware and careful of pedestrians when coming in hot. You dont have to be going fast to learn heal toe. The extra braking force from the downshift plus actual braking allows you to come into a corner faster and brake later. Have fun with it and be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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