onralz Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 A very very good "source" told me there is a team out there putting an LS-1 motor in a Mustang to race in American Iron. Anyone want to fess up? I know the name, but won't give it out in case it's "secret". I just thought it sounded really interesting and was curious if the team wanted to talk about it. Sounds like a lot of work, and I am curious of the considered benefits of all that work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat L. Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I remember a few people talking about it... I think the benefits would be reliable horsepower, 40lbs off the nose and all in a smaller package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 What is all of the work involved? The hardest part that I can think of is figuring which headers to use. Benefits include what Pat said. An LS2 crate motor is $5600 from Chevrolet. 400hp and 400 lb ft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pederb Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Yes an LS2 would make more sense 6.0L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 An LS1 would be easier if you wanted a lighter car. I don't know if a brand new motor is still available though. There is a racing harness available for the old ASA cars, so that part is easy. They use the same bellhousing pattern as all Chevys, so transmissions aren't a problem. Plumbing is simple. Camaro headers would likely be the way to start, or use Mustang headers and use the LS flanges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 You can run a hybrid in AI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pederb Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Honda or Toyota Hybrid? or any Hybrid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat L. Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 You can run a hybrid in AI? If you ask me, 90% of the AI mustangs running are already hybrids of some kind - trailing/torque arm conversions, SLA conversions, etc... hell just throw in a chevy or chrysler motor and the only thing left from Ford would be the fugly looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I worked tech a few times last year for MW and OH/IN and I remember Kurt Borton from Mid-Coast Performance jonesin' for an LS1 in a featherweight Fox-body. Is that your suspect, Mark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I have no specific knowledge but if anyone would do this it would be Mid Coast Performance. I guess I'll have to check under the hood of the Brent AI sometime this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllZWay Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 You can run a hybrid in AI? If you ask me, 90% of the AI mustangs running are already hybrids of some kind - trailing/torque arm conversions, SLA conversions, etc... hell just throw in a chevy or chrysler motor and the only thing left from Ford would be the fugly looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onralz Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 I worked tech a few times last year for MW and OH/IN and I remember Kurt Borton from Mid-Coast Performance jonesin' for an LS1 in a featherweight Fox-body. Is that your suspect, Mark? Nope. The reliability aspect definitely makes sense. What kind of power do they make? The wiring would be a pain, but doable. The motor mounts, (cough) are available already. What about the rest of the drive train? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtborton Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Mine is still a little bit from being done....but the LS1/Fairmont swap is about as easy as they come. With a 4.6 K-member and modified 4.6 mounts the enging sits almost all the way back in the engine bay just like Ford made it that way. I'm certain there are others out there doing the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 hell just throw in a chevy or chrysler motor and the only thing left from Ford would be the fugly looks. With a 4.6 K-member and modified 4.6 mounts the enging sits almost all the way back in the engine bay just like Ford made it that way. hmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onralz Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 Mine is still a little bit from being done....but the LS1/Fairmont swap is about as easy as they come. With a 4.6 K-member and modified 4.6 mounts the enging sits almost all the way back in the engine bay just like Ford made it that way. I'm certain there are others out there doing the same thing. Yes they are and I'm a bit surprised. Interesting idea, but doesn't it go against the intent of AI? Not a rule breaking intent, just the concept of Chevy vs Ford etc. I don't have a thought either way on it, just surprised it was being done, and now by more than one team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Corkran Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 but doesn't it go against the intent of AI? Not a rule breaking intent, just the concept of Chevy vs Ford etc. Perhaps you're thinking of CMC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onralz Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 but doesn't it go against the intent of AI? Not a rule breaking intent, just the concept of Chevy vs Ford etc. Perhaps you're thinking of CMC? While that intent is more prevalent in CMC, I always thought AI was started with the old school Transam in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 ...40lbs off the nose and all in a smaller package...Curious how you came up with this number. I've always wondered what the number would be based on a complete install with all the changes, including transmission, etc. A 302-based SBF has some weigh advantages over a LS1 that help to make up for the aluminum block-- such as the shorter throw crank and deck height. And a T56 (the obvious, but not only choice) is a heavy piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 If I were to do this, it would have a TKO. There's no reason to spend $3,000 for extra weight and a gear that you don't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 If I were to do this, it would have a TKO. There's no reason to spend $3,000 for extra weight and a gear that you don't need. $3000? You can pick up LS1 T56s for way cheaper then that since they don't swap into the Gen I small-blocks. LT1 T56s are worth more. I've seen LS1 T56s for $500 from drag racers who want to get rid of them. Mark: LS1s make ~300rwhp and comparable torque with stock manifolds through a T56. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat L. Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Yup, T56's aren't all that pricey, but I don't think it'd line up very well in a mustang. It'd probably require a lot of hammering and trimming, especially if the motor sits as close to the firewall as Kurt says it does. Camaro trans tunnels are BIG and that shifter sits back quite a ways. I like the TKO idea, but input shaft length might bite the user on that one. As far as the power potential of LS1's (all other LSX powerplants aside) I think Nape's number is pretty much spot on: 300whp ~stock. I personally think a chevy motor in a mustang is within the spirit of the rules considering AI is a showcase for aftermarket parts and tuners. Sure, it provides a venue to see Ford pitted against Chevy, but I think the people that run it and those that follow the series are more interested in seeing one aftermarket parts manufacturer vs. another. I'm certainly not looking forward to running against anything with an LSX powerplant in a mustang chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Sure, it provides a venue to see Ford pitted against Chevy, but I think the people that run it and those that follow the series are more interested in seeing one aftermarket parts manufacturer vs. another. I'm certainly not looking forward to running against anything with an LSX powerplant in a mustang chassis. AI is pretty much a Firebird vs. Mustang thing out here in the Midwest. I wish we had more then one parts manufacturer offering contingency to choose from! Honestly though, I'd be happy just beating the Mustangs. I'll agree with ya about not wanting to run against a Ford with a GM motor in it. It might make those Fords reliable enough to last! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmmotorsports Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I wish we had more then one parts manufacturer offering contingency to choose from! Honestly though. uh..... http://americanironracing.com/contingency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 IMO, this swap is totally against the spirit and intent of AI, but it was probably not an oversight that cross-breeding engine swaps are not specifically prohibited and if people are already building cars like this, it's obviously too late to go back. But establishing and maintaining manufacturer identity is a mainstay of production-based racing, so this just does not seem to fit that philosophy. I'm a big fan of the GM LSX engine family, but if you want to run one, it should be in a GM car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I think it's hilarious. A Ford guy can route for the car and a Chevy guy can route for the engine. ...or they can both route against the whole car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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