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LS-1 in a Mustang rumor?


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racercosmo

See, I don't go to junkyards. I was thinking of new prices. A TKO is available for Chevy applications. You can buy the input shaft if you already have a TKO from your Mustang. The pilot diameter is also smaller for the Chevy.

By the way, I have 2 Mcleod twin disc aluminum clutches available for LS motors.

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Sure, it provides a venue to see Ford pitted against Chevy, but I think the people that run it and those that follow the series are more interested in seeing one aftermarket parts manufacturer vs. another. I'm certainly not looking forward to running against anything with an LSX powerplant in a mustang chassis.

 

AI is pretty much a Firebird vs. Mustang thing out here in the Midwest. I wish we had more then one parts manufacturer offering contingency to choose from! Honestly though, I'd be happy just beating the Mustangs.

 

I'll agree with ya about not wanting to run against a Ford with a GM motor in it. It might make those Fords reliable enough to last!

 

300hp at the wheels? Reliable? You've got me thinking..........

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Raybob9289
IMO, this swap is totally against the spirit and intent of AI, but it was probably not an oversight that cross-breeding engine swaps are not specifically prohibited and if people are already building cars like this, it's obviously too late to go back. But establishing and maintaining manufacturer identity is a mainstay of production-based racing, so this just does not seem to fit that philosophy. I'm a big fan of the GM LSX engine family, but if you want to run one, it should be in a GM car.

 

I am with Matt King. If I was the main man in AI I would curb this before AI turns from "spec Mustang" to "spec LS powered Mustang"!

I don't believe a chevy engine in Mustang is in the intent of AI. I also see AI as the modern version of Trans Am. But if its OK to run any engine in any 100" wb American mark than maybe I should get an LS2 with a TKO for my new Challenger next season!!!!! at least that way I can start with a BIW.

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IMO, this swap is totally against the spirit and intent of AI, but it was probably not an oversight that cross-breeding engine swaps are not specifically prohibited and if people are already building cars like this, it's obviously too late to go back. But establishing and maintaining manufacturer identity is a mainstay of production-based racing, so this just does not seem to fit that philosophy. I'm a big fan of the GM LSX engine family, but if you want to run one, it should be in a GM car.

 

I am with Matt King. If I was the main man in AI I would curb this before AI turns from "spec Mustang" to "spec LS powered Mustang"!

I don't believe a chevy engine in Mustang is in the intent of AI. I also see AI as the modern version of Trans Am. But if its OK to run any engine in any 100" wb American mark than maybe I should get an LS2 with a TKO for my new Challenger next season!!!!! at least that way I can start with a BIW.

 

First off, there isn't even an LSX powered mustang tearing up the tracks. This is a rumor somebody heard and only one person in this thread so far has one in the works. So "spec LSX powered Mustang" is a pipe dream at best right now. And not to burst anyones bubble, but this is NASA American Iron, not Trans Am. The big three aren't exactly throwing bodies in white our way to compete for top honors. My hopes and dreams are that AI earns the recognition it deserves as the best venue to see muscle cars duking it out in the truest form and I don't see a twenty year old Ford running a recent chevy motor as turning anyone off from the series. On the contrary, as I mentioned earlier, I think it speaks to the outstanding engineering and aftermarket showcasing of the series. The AI rules start out with a similar sentiment... maybe we should review them again.

 

I think it's contradictory to say mustangs can't run a chevy motor when they are already allowed to run trailing arms volumes longer than those on the GM products. The Griggs trailing arm setup is damn near a truck arm, but the f-bodies can't extend their factory equipment? If we're going to re-write the rules so Fords can't run Chevy power, can we please take away the other supposedly unfair advantages which the Fords currently posess? SLA... heh, forgettaboutit.

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mcmmotorsports
If we're going to re-write the rules so Fords can't run Chevy power, can we please take away the other supposedly unfair advantages which the Fords currently posess? SLA... heh, forgettaboutit.

 

This coming from a Mustang owner? scratchhe.gif

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Raybob9289

First off, there isn't even an LSX powered mustang tearing up the tracks. This is a rumor somebody heard and only one person in this thread so far has one in the works. So "spec LSX powered Mustang" is a pipe dream at best right now. And not to burst anyones bubble, but this is NASA American Iron, not Trans Am. The big three aren't exactly throwing bodies in white our way to compete for top honors. My hopes and dreams are that AI earns the recognition it deserves as the best venue to see muscle cars duking it out in the truest form and I don't see a twenty year old Ford running a recent chevy motor as turning anyone off from the series. On the contrary, as I mentioned earlier, I think it speaks to the outstanding engineering and aftermarket showcasing of the series. The AI rules start out with a similar sentiment... maybe we should review them again.

 

I think it's contradictory to say mustangs can't run a chevy motor when they are already allowed to run trailing arms volumes longer than those on the GM products. The Griggs trailing arm setup is damn near a truck arm, but the f-bodies can't extend their factory equipment? If we're going to re-write the rules so Fords can't run Chevy power, can we please take away the other supposedly unfair advantages which the Fords currently posess? SLA... heh, forgettaboutit.

 

Hey Patrick Lindsey, I was just posting my Opinion. I think the FoMoCo or Mustang boys should do everthing they can to make the cars better with aftermarket parts but at least they should have to use there own engine.

The rules say the shock mounting points must be in the same place as

stock or original but go ahead and bolt a hemi in it????

On the Trans Am thing, I realize AI is not Trans Am but its alot better and

closer to that intent than where I came from.

SCCA Asedan!

As always just an Intolerant hillbillys Opinion.

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I think it's contradictory to say mustangs can't run a chevy motor when they are already allowed to run trailing arms volumes longer than those on the GM products. The Griggs trailing arm setup is damn near a truck arm, but the f-bodies can't extend their factory equipment? If we're going to re-write the rules so Fords can't run Chevy power, can we please take away the other supposedly unfair advantages which the Fords currently posess? SLA... heh, forgettaboutit.

 

We'll let you keep those, just let us be able to cut out the firewall and strut towers up front.

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BobKaser#90

I have had a hand in building this combo. We put a LS motor from a GTO in a Fox coupe very similiar to mine w/ a full GR40 setup. (It is even white) The owner has run it at a NASA NE event at Lime Rock last Aug. He is just learning to drive, so he is real cautious right now. I have driven it on the streets and it is a fun ride for sure. I don't think he has plans to do much more than the occasional NASA or EMRA races at Lime Rock or Pocono though.

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V8cobra99

This is not an official opinion, just my personal one. I can honestly care less what engine is in any of these cars, as long as we are sportsman and keep the cars to the Weight to HP rule, and other technical rules. What else does it matter than that, really? I could care less someone has a nucleared powered 2-pound motor, they are gonna still have to comply with the HP/Weight rule, and of course the max ballast rules, etc.... I am curious to see how a LSx motor weighs versus a 331, and how it will be constructed to comply with the rules, I am sure it can be done. At the end of the day, that car is gonna still have to be driven by a skillful driver....

... bring em on baby......

 

andy

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This is not an official opinion, just my personal one. I can honestly care less what engine is in any of these cars, as long as we are sportsman and keep the cars to the Weight to HP rule, and other technical rules. What else does it matter than that, really? I could care less someone has a nucleared powered 2-pound motor, they are gonna still have to comply with the HP/Weight rule, and of course the max ballast rules, etc.... I am curious to see how a LSx motor weighs versus a 331, and how it will be constructed to comply with the rules, I am sure it can be done. At the end of the day, that car is gonna still have to be driven by a skillful driver....

... bring em on baby......

 

andy

 

...what he said...

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I don't think that this is even close to the intent of the rules and I would hate to see this be legalized.

 

Can I go out and put in a duratec V6 with a turbo and install it into my AI car, or for that matter can I buy a Cosworth DFX for my AIX car?

 

letting this happen opens up a big can of worms.

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I don't think that this is even close to the intent of the rules and I would hate to see this be legalized.

 

Can I go out and put in a duratec V6 with a turbo and install it into my AI car, or for that matter can I buy a Cosworth DFX for my AIX car?

 

letting this happen opens up a big can of worms.

I hate to say it.... but I agree with Brian. AIX is one thing, and maybe worthy of a different discussion, but I do think that the make of the car should match the make of the engine.
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white_2kgt
This is not an official opinion, just my personal one. I can honestly care less what engine is in any of these cars, as long as we are sportsman and keep the cars to the Weight to HP rule, and other technical rules. What else does it matter than that, really? I could care less someone has a nucleared powered 2-pound motor, they are gonna still have to comply with the HP/Weight rule, and of course the max ballast rules, etc.... I am curious to see how a LSx motor weighs versus a 331, and how it will be constructed to comply with the rules, I am sure it can be done. At the end of the day, that car is gonna still have to be driven by a skillful driver....

... bring em on baby......

 

andy

 

while I agree that motor BRAND should not be policed between cars, I still think we should stick to motors that came in American IRON cars and keep exotic block combo's out of AI, you know just as well as I know getting weight off the front end of these cars is an exercise and having someone spend 50k on a lightweight custom block/rotating/heads isn't within the rules or intent.

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Tiger Racing
T56's aren't all that pricey, but I don't think it'd line up very well in a mustang. It'd probably require a lot of hammering and trimming

The T56 in my Mustang works pretty well. You'd have to ask Paul if it required a shoe horn to install though.

 

C.

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Folks-

 

Good discussion and I am always glad to see the opinions and thoughts about the series.

 

As to the LSx/Fox combo, I do think this is within the original intent of the series which was to see just how good we could make humble ponycars work. The entire series grew out of a desire to create a showcase for tuners and racers to try and really push the state of the art with these cars while keeping the competition fair and even. Now, with that said, we have had to say no to some things we thought would enable a slippery slope (frame notches?) and it was not easy to come to those decisions.

 

However, bolting a Chevy into a Ford is just plain cool and the prospect is somewhat exciting to me as it brings to life dreams resulting from spending far too much dough on SBF boat anchors. Perhaps this could even cure some of the problems those of us with Fords have come to know and love including but not limited to lunched valvetrains, two piece cranks, and blocks with fascinating new holes in them after large expensive clunking noises. As pointed out above, we've allowed the Fords to enjoy the Torque Arms, SLA's, and other goodies from the Chevys, so why not add the motor as well? The power and torque will be regulated, so the harm does not seem readily apparent to me beyond a disturbance in "vision" or "intent" as envisioned by some of you all out there. Hotrodders have been doing "hybrids" for years, so hopefully this will become reality so we can see how it works. My neighbor had a super cool '56 F100 with a 500-inch Caddy in it so the LSx Fox might be the start of a new trend similar to the familar excellent Honda swaps that have captured the imagination of the Honda crowd. The Cosworth Mustang also sounds neat and perhaps someone will buy the Enzo Eddie Griffin stacked a couple of weeks back to bolt that mill into clean 3rd gen IROC. The mind boggles...

 

So, point taken, point noted, and we'll see what comes of this rumor with an eye towards keeping the competition even as always. If it turns out that these swaps are bad for the series, the directors will take our stewardship as the serious obligation that it is and make adjustments to even things out.

 

-JWL

 

P.S. T-56's fit wonderfully in Mustangs. Lightning has been six speed equipped since 2001 and it fit fine.

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Frank Corkran
My neighbor had a super cool '56 F100 with a 500-inch Caddy...

 

I completely agree that motor swaps are entirely within (my) interpretation of the series intent as well, and once common shade tree swaps like you mention also came immediately to mind.

 

The Cosworth Mustang also sounds neat and perhaps someone will buy the Enzo Eddie Griffin stacked a couple of weeks back to bolt that mill into clean 3rd gen IROC. The mind boggles...

 

Neither of those seem to be within either the intent or the specifics of the rules. Not "OEM" engines as defined in the rules, nor would either be in line with the "cost containment" flavor of AI. AIX, sure. You can't use an aluminum replacement Ford Windsor block but a DFV is OK? Which brings up a side issue related to cost containment: $8000 remote-reservoir shocks are OK for AI, but AIX is limited to trannys costing under $6k?

 

...so the LSx Fox might be the start of a new trend similar to the familar excellent Honda swaps that have captured the imagination of the Honda crowd.

 

How about an "OEM" GM Saturn Vue Honda V6 nestled tight up against the firewall of a no-minimum-weight '79 Fox coupe?

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You can't use an aluminum replacement Ford Windsor block but a DFV is OK?
Bingo. A better example would be using something like a BMW V8 which would be significantly lighter than even an aluminum-block SBF, yet cost more. I propose that the hybrids be allowed, but the engine has to come from a car that is AI legal.
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ahhhh, guys, I don't think the legality of a SBC in a Ford chassis's legality is in dispute here. Whether or not one *thinks* it should/should not be allow has no bearing on the legality - it's legal.

 

Quite frankly, I think this is a fine idea and I am very interested in seeing this machine on the track.

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ahhhh, guys, I don't think the legality of a SBC in a Ford chassis's legality is in dispute here. Whether or not one *thinks* it should/should not be allow has no bearing on the legality - it's legal.

 

Quite frankly, I think this is a fine idea and I am very interested in seeing this machine on the track.

 

No, the original intent of this thread was just to see who all was doing it. I know of one team in particular that hasn't exactly spoken up yet and was just curious how many more have considered it. If someone took this thread as an argument for or against the idea by me, you have my apologies.

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racercosmo

When did a DFV come into the picture? Has a DFV ever been legal in AI? If you wanted to put one in an AIX car, that's your waste of money.

 

If the engine came in a car that is AI legal, it can go into another car and remain AI legal as long as the other rules are observed.

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Excellent points again and I didn't intend to suggest some of the wild stuff for AI. The non-OEM exotic stuff would only be OK for AIX as we do have some limits in AI for what sorts of mills are OK and we have no intention of changing that one. However, it does look like there is some more tightening to be done based on some of the creative thought above so we'll add that to the tote in September for our discussions (in other words, leave that motor in the minivan for now, boss).

 

-JWL

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Just thought I would chime in with my $.02

 

I don't like the idea one bit. Chevy vs Ford is a great (and dare I say historic) rivalry. If you start to allow cars to meld into the "car of tomorrow" with no identity... AI will end up another spec series.... at least for those guys that can afford to build the car.

 

Another point is that the Fords and the Chevys each have their strengths and weaknesses. One of the things the Chevy guys have on their side is better power plants. Fords do have some of there own advantages... no? Is there anything off of a Ford that a Chevy guy can run to get faster???? (I run Ford SVO fuel injectors in my LT1).

 

What about the aftermarket companies we are trying to promote? Do you think they are going to sell a lot of parts to the average Mustang owner based on their support of a car that runs a Chevy motor? The average muscle car owner is pretty biased.

 

What's wrong with the newer Ford motors anyway? I thought the 5.4L and 4.6L motors were supposed to be great?

 

I guess that's enough of my ideas for now....

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Fords do have some of there own advantages... no? Is there anything off of a Ford that a Chevy guy can run to get faster????

 

^^^^ just made my night

 

Answers:

 

Unless you can translate overseas marketshare into a competitive advantage on the track...

 

Ford is currently producing AI product as we type...

 

Now that Aston Martin is in capable hands, maybe the trickle down effect will flow into the production of the SN196843 chassis...

 

Ford employees will see cents on the dollar from their pension plan which is cents more than GM employees...

 

All that combined is enough good Karma to allow all Fords a measurable advantage on the track.

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D Algozine

K - I - S - S

 

The more complicated it is, the more complicated it becomes. If you want to run a Chevy engine, get a Chevy, and same goes for a Ford, or whatever manufacturer. It seems very simle to me.

 

Exotic engines and mismatched manufacturer engines belongs in AIX not AI. What does the "X" mean, again? This kind of stuff can really screw up brand loyalty, fan base, manufacturer support, and aftermarket support. I realize these items are small right now, but they don't have to remain small, a this engine thing complicates it.

 

What other popular racing class, with closed rules allows this kind of engine swapping?

 

Again, KISS. It works, don't screw with it.

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