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Recommended Brake Pads for 1st HPDE?


geerookie

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This is my first time ever at an HPDE. I finally got up the courage to go. I will be at Watkins Glen 5/7 - 5/8. I have a '99 C5 with stock motor & 6spd, 3.73 rearend, Nitto 555 tires, Pfadt Racing Sway bar, Koni FSD shocks. I am installing new NAPA rotors, DOT4 fluid but I'm not sure what pads I should install. I will be driving the car about 300 miles to and from the track for the HPDE. These pads and rotors are only for the HPDE. I have another set for daily driving. Any suggestions or opinions will be appreciated. I plan on doing about 4 or 5 more HPDE's this year if that makes a difference.

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With a fast and heavy car like yours, I'd recommend race pads, at least on the front brakes. I'm not sure that street/track pads won't fade on you at the track during hard driving.

 

Have you considered just swapping pads at the track? A lot of guys do it.

 

As far as good race pads go, I'll list the usual suspects (and in no particular order):

1. Performance Friction 01

2. Porterfield R-4

3. Hawk blues

4. Carbotech XP10/12

 

I've used the first two with good results. I'm currently running the Performance Friction 01 pads on my Mustang track car and love them. They're not cheap but I've yet to experience any brake fade and they're easy to modulate.

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Great question as I am in the same predicament.

 

I initially thought about going with the Hawk HPS pads as my car will be driven to the track. Upon thinking it more, I decided to swap out my pads at the event and go with Hawk Blues.

 

You may also think about changing your brake fluid to a higher boiling point fluid. CDOC has a great deal on the ATE Super bue which I am flushing my system with over the weekend.

 

cheers

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Great question as I am in the same predicament.

 

I initially thought about going with the Hawk HPS pads as my car will be driven to the track. Upon thinking it more, I decided to swap out my pads at the event and go with Hawk Blues.

 

You may also think about changing your brake fluid to a higher boiling point fluid. CDOC has a great deal on the ATE Super bue which I am flushing my system with over the weekend.

 

cheers

 

My undestanding is you can drive with those pads to the event. Just might be a little more brake pedal pressure required until they heat up a little. Also will be a bit on the noisy side. Why did you go with the blues? I was thinking HPS plus but after discussions here and another forum I am leaning towards race pads...mabye PF-01 or Wilwood Polymatrix H

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Race pads need to heat up a bit to function as intended. Unless you're driving like a maniac, you'll probably never heat them up enough on the street to reach that point. Having said that, I have driven my Mustang on the street with the PF 01 pads installed. They worked fine but squeeled a lot which was very annoying. Also, race pads tend to be hard on rotors from a wear perspective when cold. After a couple of weeks of squeeling, I couldn't wait to change back to street pads when driving on the street!

 

Driving with race pads to and from an event is OK, I'd just swap them with street pads as soon as possible.

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GEEROOKIE:

 

Contact Dan Pushkar at Carbotech (http://www.CTBrakes.com) and discuss your situation with him. He can point you to the proper compounds for the Corvette (OOOPSED earlier mentioning Mustang).

 

Mark "Feff" Pfeffer

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I believe Geerookie is driving a C5, as in a Corvette.

 

my $.03 worth - Changing the pads at the track isn't too difficult, but in your tool kit, start to carry things like extra lug bolts, caliper mounting bolts, bleeder valve, a good set of combo wrenches, a torque wrench, a BFH, brake bleed tool, small air compressor and ask for Vinnie when you get to the track. He's got a black Z06, can almost see over the top of the car when he stands next to it, is a great friend and the Glen is his home track.

 

Any questions, he can help.

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As an aside, I just wanted to say that Vinnie is a great guy. He instructed for a friend of mine at the April Mid-Ohio event and we all had a great time. Look him up when at the track as he is always helpful.

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Not quite the same car, but I run Hawk Blues (w/ a set of rotors for "track only") on the front and HP+ in the rear (that stay on for the street) Full weight 1993 GT, 310rwhp, nearing 140+mph on the front straight of Cali Speedway on street tires. Brakes worked great. No ABS on my car, and I run the brakes hard. A few times each lap, I had the tires "talking" (for lack of a better term...) under hard braking. I would say that was pretty much the braking limit of my car. The brakes weren't locked up, but there were small barks from the front tires when trying to stop this sled

 

The car has production Cobra brakes (13", PBRs upfront) and also Cobra brakes in the rear

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put enough pad on the car that you don't have to worry about fade so you can concentrate on driving instead of worrying if the brakes will actually work in the next braking zone...

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put enough pad on the car that you don't have to worry about fade so you can concentrate on driving instead of worrying if the brakes will actually work in the next braking zone...

That is exactly what I was thinking! Many have said just run stock but I have heard of a few "incidents" with stock pads fadeing etc. I have changed brake fluid to Wilwood racing fluid. I went with Hawk HPS Plus for now. I think after a little experience and a few HPDE's under my belt I will change pads to Wilwood, Hawk Blue or mabye look into Carbotech.

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I believe Geerookie is driving a C5, as in a Corvette.

 

my $.03 worth - Changing the pads at the track isn't too difficult, but in your tool kit, start to carry things like extra lug bolts, caliper mounting bolts, bleeder valve, a good set of combo wrenches, a torque wrench, a BFH, brake bleed tool, small air compressor and ask for Vinnie when you get to the track. He's got a black Z06, can almost see over the top of the car when he stands next to it, is a great friend and the Glen is his home track.

 

Any questions, he can help.

 

I will look him up. Hopefully he will be there MAy 7th & 8th. I know swapping isn't a big deal but I'm sure this being my first time I will have enough to worry about.

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Personally I would run your car stock pads for your first event. You will learn more IMHO.

 

Agreed, allow me to add, NEW stock pads, not worn down ones, and for kicks go buy a second set of stock pads from autozone to have in the tool box, just in case. I would HIGHLY recommend NOT getting a 'race' pad (like carbotech XP's) for your First HPDE. All the other cars in your group are going to be slow, so you will be slow, and those pads will not heat up going slow. I had a friend in a 'new to him' M3 on his second HPDE weekend go out on XP8's (was going to get one of the other 'street' carbotech pads but they were out of stock so they just sent him XP8's). First hot lap into turn 1, he didn't know how to properly heat up the pads and went right off into the grass. Didn't hit anything but he got back on track with a little mud on his tires and then dumped it into a guardrail a few turns later. That was a long ride home in the cab of a tow truck with your M3 right behind you...

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This maybe to simple of a explanation, but the race pads work at higher temperature than the stock pads do. they are needed when you start to compress your braking zone. You first event will be spent on learning the line and how your car handles in general. You may be braking from 1xx mph but you will be using a longer brake zone until you learn what your car feels like. I running stock pads on my ZO6 because they are good pads/brakes to start with. Also the stock pads are cheaper.

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........... then dumped it into a guardrail a few turns later. That was a long ride home in the cab of a tow truck with your M3 right behind you...

 

OUCH! That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I'm glad I decided not to do the race pads. I went with Hawk HPS Plus.

 

And beerkat thanks for the "simple" explanation. I never really thought about the fact of having the longer brake zone. I was only thinking about heading for a corner at 1xx MPH and having to stop. I feel a little better now and hopefully I will have a fun and safe experience with no off-track excursions at Watkins Glen next week.

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Don''t forget to bleed the system to change e the brake fluid to Motul or ATE. Don't want to boil the fluid.

 

I've run HP Plus on an Integra for both street and track, no problems. Now with a 2000 Camaro Z28 I run Satisfied GS5 pads, ATE Blue fluid and StopTech craided brake lines. Not problems slowing a 3500lb car down from 120 at MO or on the street. No fade either at the end of the session. I will be changing to CarboTech Ax6 pads (front only) later this summer.

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In my C5Z I run Carbotech XP8 front and PP rear... Big heavy car with lots of power needs lots of brakes. Work great, minimal fade, lots of noise, lots of dust, still work pretty well when cool. I have also extended the front cooling ducts.

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Personally I would run your car stock pads for your first event. You will learn more IMHO.

 

Agreed, allow me to add, NEW stock pads, not worn down ones, and for kicks go buy a second set of stock pads from autozone to have in the tool box, just in case. I would HIGHLY recommend NOT getting a 'race' pad (like carbotech XP's) for your First HPDE. All the other cars in your group are going to be slow, so you will be slow, and those pads will not heat up going slow. I had a friend in a 'new to him' M3 on his second HPDE weekend go out on XP8's (was going to get one of the other 'street' carbotech pads but they were out of stock so they just sent him XP8's). First hot lap into turn 1, he didn't know how to properly heat up the pads and went right off into the grass. Didn't hit anything but he got back on track with a little mud on his tires and then dumped it into a guardrail a few turns later. That was a long ride home in the cab of a tow truck with your M3 right behind you...

 

no offense to you or your buddy, but heres how it could've played out

 

guy gets brake fade 3 laps in but doesn't go off too badly, and then wrecks in the next turn with the mud on his tires. can't account for extreme driver error.... sounds like he would've found a way into the walls regardless

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A different perspective. I ran a set of not new hawk intermediate pads for my 4 day SCCA school at Roebling Road this February. They gave it up after the second to last session. That was 300 track miles. My HPDE weekend I ran well under 100 miles.

 

The car is a '95 Cobra R and so, very heavy up front and I was running race speeds. The blues are better for racing, but the intermediates should hold up well for a group 1 outing.

 

Maybe my experience is different, but thats my offering.

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Corvettes have better stock brakes than most cars do. There are other cars that have good brake setups as well and can run stock, BMW, Porsche, EVO, WRX, etc.

 

Also the track that you are running on can help determine what kind of pad you might need. So just putting on a more aggressive pad does not mean you will drive better .Also the more aggressive the pad the more wear on the rotor.

 

HPDE 1 and 2 are for learning about you, your car and how well they work together. Learn the limit of your car in stock form before spending money on race pads or R compound tires.

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.... sounds like he would've found a way into the walls regardless

 

agreed.

 

however, from my experience, I don't feel he's going to get enough clean laps to induce brake fade in group 1, which is why I do not recommend race pads for those starting out. I didn't even use race pads until I got to HPDE3, the autozone PFz lifetime pads held up great on a full MM mustang, full interior, and I got a new set, for free, a week or two before hitting the track. Once I got to HPDE3 with open passing the brakes really started getting a workout and then I needed something more aggressive since they had no time to cool down.

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I did my first HPDE at M-O a little over a week ago, and I was on EBC Yellow Stuff pads front and rear. I still managed to get some fade towards the ends of the later sessions, but it was easily corrected by moving my braking points back a couple cars. Also, I never actually drove my car while stock. I don't want to imagine the track manners with stock springs and M+S tires.

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Just an Update:

Well I made it through 2 days at Watkins Glen and it was UNBELIEVABLE! What an awesome 2 days. My car worked great and no problems at all. I went with Hawk HPS Plus pads front and rear. Had new NAPA rotors front and rear and Wilwood EXP 600 brake fluid. No cracked rotors and no brake fade. Just a lot of black brake dust! Pads and rotors have more than enough for another 2 days. I was going into turn 1 at about 120mph and started braking at 300' mark. About 132mph into the chicane and braking at 450'. No fade that I noticed. The last two sessions were about 30 minutes and I had no one in front of me and ran pretty hard.

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