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jon dawes

if you had $3k, which starter HPDE would you buy?

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jon dawes

hear hear!!! [or is it here here??]

 

i second the motion! pictures pictures, my kingdom for some pictures!

 

[i did see that a 2.3 turbo mustang ran in AI in the west and finished the weekend albeit with some problems. . . see the website for details. btw: is the 2.3 the building block for the 4.6? after all, it is half of one in terms of displacement right?]

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Renntag
... btw: is the 2.3 the building block for the 4.6? after all, it is half of one in terms of displacement right?

 

you did not just ask that question.

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FlyingDog
... btw: is the 2.3 the building block for the 4.6? after all, it is half of one in terms of displacement right?

 

you did not just ask that question.

It's not that silly of a question... Don't forget that #181 is half of a 5L 928 engine with a 4.7L 928 head and a turbo.

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TurboShortBus
Pictures....need to see pictures. You cant tell us about a mustang you obsessed over with out pictures !

 

Here's full documentation, 24 boring pages worth:

 

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34314.0

 

You might have to register on that site to be able to see the thread.

 

Mark

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jon dawes

well, if you think it's silly, i think it's silly that the powerplant in an aston martin is two ford mondeo engines stuck together. i'm actually surprised that mr. smartypants wouldn't realize that it makes economic sense for the manufacturers to use what already exists rather than create something new. the bentleys are just forked over vws, for example. and the w12 engine is, yep, you guessed it, SIX two cylinder engines from lawnmowers!!! okay maybe not so much on that last one. . .

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Renntag

Actually, I stand my ground. With as much as Jon reads up and knows about Ford Powerplants.....he should know that the 2.3L is an iron block 4cyl born of the pinto in the early 70s. The 4.6 is an entirely new family of motors for Ford refered to as the "Modular".

 

I just figured Jon was being silly again.

 

 

and yes...I am aware of how Porsche came to make the 944 powerplant from the 928.

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jon dawes

dammit i HATE when he's right!!!

 

here's what wickedpedia says [at least about the efficiency of using exisitng parts]:

 

In keeping with traditional Ford practice, as engine design is revised over time compatibility with previous versions is considered low priority,[2] so that parts from a modular engine made in one model year are not necessarily likely to fit an engine made in another; and parts from an engine manufactured in Romeo are unlikely to fit an engine made in Windsor.[3] The Romeo and Windsor plants have different designs for main bearings, heads (cam caps), camshaft gears (press-on vs. bolt on), valve covers (number of bolts), crankshaft (number of flywheel bolts), and cross bolt fasteners for main bearing caps.

 

oh well. off to find info on the 2.3....probably a waste of time!!!

 

and just for kicks here's some info on what 'Modular' means:

 

Contrary to popular belief, the Modular engine did not get its name from its design or sharing of certain parts among the engine family. Instead, the name was derived from a manufacturing plant protocol, "Modular", where the plant and its tooling could be changed out in a matter of hours to manufacture different versions of the engine family.

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RodeoFlyer

**shakes head in disgust**

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granracing
i may realize i want to "drive it like i stole it" and i probably won't drive my new mustang gt like that.

 

Exactly! I first took my baby (back then a Mits. 3000GT that I wanted for many, many years) on the track. Then I took my POS '87 Honda Prelude si with less than double the HP of the 3000GT on the track. I was faster with the Prelude because I wasn't afraid of hurting the Lude. Years later, I'm still racing a 2nd gen. Prelude and love it!!! Drive any car you can get your hands on. If you're afraid of pushing it, get another car you won't be afraid to learn with.

 

Oh, my low HP Prelude does just fine against higher HP cars, proving it's not all about the car. Did I mention just how much fun it is kicking a Porsche, Ferrari, or other $$$$$ car with a cheap, low HP car is?

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Renntag
.... '87 Honda Prelude si with less than double the HP of the 3000GT...

 

Of course, by some interpretation that is still true, but maybe you meant "half" ?

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mcmmotorsports
... btw: is the 2.3 the building block for the 4.6? after all, it is half of one in terms of displacement right?

 

you did not just ask that question.

 

Yup, he sure did. crazy.gif

 

Next thing you know, someone is going to say that the GM 2.5 Iron Duke was the foundation for the 5.0 V8. tomato.gif

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jon dawes
Next thing you know, someone is going to say that the GM 2.5 Iron Duke was the foundation for the 5.0 V8. tomato.gif

 

Hey it WAS! I drove a Chevy Celebrity Eurosport for years and it had the 2.5. . . always felt like i was driving half a firechicken .

 

[if Frank Corkran's watching: Look, I'm using the shift key!!!]

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Frank Corkran
. . . always felt like i was driving half a firechicken .

 

[if Frank Corkran's watching: Look, I'm using the shift key!!!]

 

Well, at least you're trying!

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jon dawes

Ooops.

 

Baby steps...

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kishg
'87 to '91 BMW 325i or is. Fun to drive, cheap, plentiful, easy to work on, very reliable, built to be abused, lots of used parts around, affordable widely available OEM parts and aftermarket support, and a great racecar that can be made competitive on a budget (Spec E30) if/when you decide to go that way.

 

Late 1980's Mustang and early 90's Miata are tied for 2nd on my personal list. You can't go wrong with either of those choices either, IMHO.

 

Jon

 

E30 325is.

 

+10 E30s rock!

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jon dawes

I feel it necessary to provide an update on my $3k 'starter' HPDE car.

 

The 94 Mustang GT I bought that had a 'rebuilt engine' and 'didn't really need any work' has surprised me time and again! I don't necessarily regret buying an older car that could use pretty much everything 'freshened', but if I had it to do over again, I would rather have spent the 3 grand on the car and the 3+ grand on parts/labor/etc. on a $6-7k car that had lower miles and was less in need of 'freshening'.

 

I must also add that I THOUGHT I wanted to wrench on a car!!! Well, I still do, but not without the right tools, work space, time, money, etc. that it takes to do it 'right'. It's been a learning experience and I've learned that I'm comfortable with, and enjoy, certain things like brake and suspension and interior work, and really am NOT good at exhaust work and engine tuning.

 

And I bought a 'turnkey' CMC racecar anyways so all this is sorta moot!!!!!

 

So I'd say if you can swing it, save your pennies for an already completed car [there was recently a champion Honda Challenge car on this forum for around $3k!!!] if you have even a glimmer of desire to eventually race, or spend a little bit extra, wait a few more months, and get something that doesn't require as much work [unless that's what you're into, right!?].

 

I think there were a few useful points in there somewhere...

 

JD

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Sterling Doc
parts are really NOT that expensive for the 924 S and 944

 

Except for the transaxle

 

Seriously, I would agree that 944 parts are cheaper than 911 parts but none of 'em are as cheap as E30 or E36 BMW parts. 944's are awesome handling cars though!

 

Jon

 

$200 for a trans is expensive? This is not atypical (bought one literally last week for that, and have bought several for < $300) There's a huge online support community (Rennlist, Pelican Parts, 944Spec.org), where bargains can be found all all the time.

 

Not to bash E30's, they make a great HPDE car, also have great online suport, and have a great, affordable racing series to graduate to - just like 924S/944's (only the P-cars are galvanized & don't rust so much ). <-Shoot, my bias slipped out

 

Here's an example of how to make the internet work to build a budget, but full on 944:http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=24771

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