Nitrogen in the tires (How to get the old air out??)

[marshallmosty]

I just got my nitrogen setup working and was wondering if the schrader valve on a typical valve stem was good for vacuum too.

 

I "rented" a vacuum pump from AutoZone and used an old R12 refill hose coupled to an air tank fitting (bicycle pump type) to connect to the rim.

 

The pump 1/3HP was able to pull 11 inHg after about a minute of pumping. The valve held and I was the proud owner of a pentagon shaped Toyo RA1.

 

I guess it's now ready for the nitrogen? Since I pulled vacuum, I don't believe I need to do the fill/purge/fill/purge/fill.... routine, right?

 

 

 

 

[JKnight]

No idea. But I see a scale back there. Post weight difference post nitrogen fill?

 

Jason

[Gfaules]

For years, over the road truckers, auto racers and the U.S. military have been filling tires on their vehicles with pure nitrogen. Here's why. In a tire filled with compressed air, the oxygen molecules tend to "migrate" through the wall of the tire over time. That's why, when you open the garage to check on your aunt's dust-covered 1980 Pontiac the tires are often flat. But nitrogen molecules migrate 3 to 4 times more slowly than oxygen, so tires stay properly inflated longer. There are other benefits. Nitrogen retains less heat than oxygen and therefore allows tires to run cooler.

 

I use nitrogen to fill my race car tires because it is the cheapest bottled gas I can buy in big cylinders at the welding shop. One bottle of nitrogen fills enough tires for a lot of endurance racing, and also would runs my air wrenches and more.

 

Remember, air is about 80 percent nitrogen to start with--so the difference is not profound. The balance of the volume of air is mostly oxygen, which is bad for your tires. Oxygen promotes breakdown of the rubber, so your tires should last longer with pure nitrogen. Furthermore, nitrogen molecules migrate through rubber more slowly than oxygen, so your tires should lose pressure more slowly. (I'm assuming you check your tire pressures on a regular schedule.)

 

Another, perhaps more important, advantage to nitrogen is that the nitrogen delivered from a welding cylinder or nitrogen generator is desiccated and clean. Moisture inside a tire is bad because it causes pressure fluctuations and corrodes rims. And, I've seen lots of water come out of service-station air pumps. I generally will check the line for moisture before I use it by depressing the inflater pin with my thumbnail. If my thumb gets wet, I try to purge the line for a few seconds. There's also the potential for the compressor to force lubricating oil and garbage from the inside of the tank into the tire. Oil will further accelerate breakdown of the rubber, and dirt can be trapped in the valve core, starting a leak. Worse, some shops use automatic oilers to lubricate their air tools, adding even more oily mist to the mix.

 

To install nitrogen rather than wasting your time pulling a vaccum simply purge generally by the time-honored tradition of alternately filling and venting the tire. Unless the tire is broken off the rim, cleaned of moisture and debris, and remounted with a waterfree rim lubricant before purging with nitrogen, you'll miss most of the benefits.

[marshallmosty]

Gfaules,

What would you recommend for "waterfree rim lubricant"?

I have a deal with the local Firestone for mounting/dismounting, but would need to take them whatever elephant snot would be needed if it is something special.

[Renntag]

Gf. Nice post. I have considered getting a tank of compressed air for my trailer as it wont require electricity/etc. and I dont think I could use 3-4,000 psi of air in a 80-100 cube tank over a few weekends.

[Gfaules]

Gfaules,

What would you recommend for "waterfree rim lubricant"?

I have a deal with the local Firestone for mounting/dismounting, but would need to take them whatever elephant snot would be needed if it is something special.

 

Marshall,

 

Great question and anyone that uses nitrogen on a regular basis should ask the same question. Not using the correct tire lube before using nitrogen is not at all unlike putting changing your oil and then putting the old oil back in the engine. Just makes no sense at all. On the other hand, so-called "tire experts" who don't use the correct products when mounting are alike doctors from the 17th century... very barbarian. On the other hand, if you are using nothing but bottled nitrogen moisture gets diluted out in the end anyway.

 

This is why we use Gaither Supper Slick'em non-water Based Tire Lubricant. There are other brands but all tire experts should be using non-water based tire lube anyway since it prevents rust and corrosion inside the wheels.

 

By the way, I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but one of the most important reasons to use nitrogen is tire pressure stay more consistent that with pump air and we all know that in all sports consistency is the key to success. The more things you can make consistent when racing the easier it is to fine tune and make correct adjustments.

[Gfaules]

Gf. Nice post. I have considered getting a tank of compressed air for my trailer as it wont require electricity/etc. and I dont think I could use 3-4,000 psi of air in a 80-100 cube tank over a few weekends.

 

Colin,

 

Some years ago I used to rent a big bottle of nitrogen but after I realized how much of a luxury it was to have at the track I bought my own bottle and just exchange it when I need a fill. It only cost about $15 to get a new one and I am always surprised how long it last. I fill my tires, use my impact gun, blow off dirt and so on and it last me half a season. Then I use less than a bottle during the 25 Hours of Thunderhill and I have even helped others change engines using it for air ratchets etc. And the good news is it doesn't spoil. By the way, nitrogen is the greatest thing an air tool have ever seen. No moisture.

[Renntag]

.....nitrogen is the greatest thing an air tool have ever seen. No moisture.

 

I am going to call my welding supplier this morning and ask about buying a tank. Thanks.

[Gfaules]

.....nitrogen is the greatest thing an air tool have ever seen. No moisture.

 

I am going to call my welding supplier this morning and ask about buying a tank. Thanks.

 

Not knowing your experience with welding supplies here is one bit of wisdom. Do not buy tanks that can only be refilled at one place. Some welding suppliers have special tank fittings that either require you to return to that specific supplier for refills and thus causing you hardships. Many suppliers will sell you a tank (and keep your receipt) that you technically own however it can be exchanged for a full one wherever you go.

[mcmmotorsports]

For years we have used Nitrogen in our Stock Cars. Tire pressures remain consistent and little to no change in stagger.

[Renntag]

My supplier didnt have a bottle for sale the size I wanted, so I rented one for the short term until I can find one for sale.

 

Worked great this weekend. Tire pressures still grew, but we didnt deflate/re-inflate as necessary. Supplied the impact gun and the blowgun just fine. I also started my weekend off with air-ing up all 10 tires on the truck and trailer, only used about 500psi of a 120 cube tank so far. (2500 when full, sunday afternoon read 2000)

 

regardless of pros/cons on nitrogen. for a small fee and hassle of refill, I have compressed air without the need for a compressor or electricity. That alone has value for me.

[Gfaules]

My supplier didnt have a bottle for sale the size I wanted, so I rented one for the short term until I can find one for sale.

 

Worked great this weekend. Tire pressures still grew, but we didnt deflate/re-inflate as necessary. Supplied the impact gun and the blowgun just fine. I also started my weekend off with air-ing up all 10 tires on the truck and trailer, only used about 500psi of a 120 cube tank so far. (2500 when full, sunday afternoon read 2000)

 

regardless of pros/cons on nitrogen. for a small fee and hassle of refill, I have compressed air without the need for a compressor or electricity. That alone has value for me.

 

Trust me... You're hooked and you'll never be without it again. Curious what city do you live in? One more word of caution if you don't already know. If you have a bottle of nitrogen in the hot pits you are required to have a protective device that prevents the regulator or valve to break off. (See rule book) But in fact it's a good idea to have one in the trailer too. I got one from the same people who fills my bottles.

[Renntag]

I will check the rule book. But I have it strapped to the e-channel on the wall of my trailer for now. I plan to put it in a rigidly mounted box to hold it securely. Additionally, I remove the regulator for transport and thread the safety cap over the valve.

[Gfaules]

I will check the rule book. But I have it strapped to the e-channel on the wall of my trailer for now. I plan to put it in a rigidly mounted box to hold it securely. Additionally, I remove the regulator for transport and thread the safety cap over the valve.

 

That still will not be legal in any hotpit unless they have a saftey cage. If your supplier will noit give you one for free they are simple to build. If you haven't seen one fall over of a valve get knocked off like the ones on MythBusters you are in for a shock. In the meantime here are some photos.

 

http://www.capitalcitymotorsports.com/productsNitroBottleCages.htm

[Renntag]

Nice. I like the idea of having it lay down and the cage being a step or work surface. Great idea.

 

Any idea how much?

 

[Gfaules]

Nice. I like the idea of having it lay down and the cage being a step or work surface. Great idea.

 

Any idea how much?

 

 

Not a clue but it would be so inexspensive to make one and for that matter it could be made from angle iron.

[Renntag]

Yes, I thought of that. But I have a time shortage. I also have a damaged race car to fix and 2 events prior to my next race june 23/24.

 

I emailed the point of contact at that site and asked for price to my door. Based on the value of my time, I will make a decision.

 

I'll share what I find for those interested that are following this.