manx Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I saw an old thread about new cars competitiveness in TTD. Last time I ran TT in 04 many cars where daily drivers, seems like all of the builds I see for TT cars these days are all gutted track only cars. What is the chance that a car with a mods but no gutting is going to be competitive at all? Seems like the, no penalty for gutting a car, is taking away from the idea of having a street/track car that you can use in TT and be competitive. I understand they all have to be at a certain weight regardless of gutting or not. Seems like they overlook that there is always an advantage to being able to put the weight where you want it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyevo Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 My car is not gutted, and I daily drive it when the weather is nice. I finished 2nd on saturday and 1st on sunday at Mid Ohio 2 weeks ago in TTA. Full interior, a/c, power windows, sunroof, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Don't want to discourage you, but the free weight reduction (combined with ballast) is the best mod you can do to a car--and did I mention it's free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 I'll be able to get close enough to the minimum for my car by simply adding the new CF hood, changing the muffler from stock to a SuperTrapp(with the associated 1 point for "power") and maybe removing the passenger seat I'll still daily drive the car, with AC, radio, etc. and drive it to the track with my RA1s stuffed in the passenger area and I plan to drive it to and from Mid-Ohio without towing for Nationals 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IS300 Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 I don't think that a car needs to gutted, but Kyle is right it is free. My car is about 375 lbs overweight, but I just have to drive a little harder. I don't drive the car too much on the street, but it is nice having heated seats I plan on running Nationals, with a little more weight taken off, but definately not gutted. See Ya Chris #9 TTE Lexus IS300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotspoonJDM Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 im In TTD, i have thought about gutting mine, well the front enterior i have allready done the rear, But the front has some of that sound deading crap that wieghs a pretty good bit. But im Still learning on STreet tires as of now, and plus im only 2 classing points away from getting knocked into TTC. i wana wait untill i get R comps before i move up. and that stuff is hard to take out, that sound deading crap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACER-X Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Don't want to discourage you, but the free weight reduction (combined with ballast) is the best mod you can do to a car--and did I mention it's free? He's right, the gutted cars with the added ballast will be the most competitive. But you don't have to gut your car to have fun and try to outbest your own time. It would be nice to be more competitive and give these guys a run but I'm not going to gut the car to do so. I'm just trying to work on my driving skills and be more consistant though it is fun to slow them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriverGT5 Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 I'll be running a TTD M3 this year at nationals and it's basically complete. We'll probably even leave the "Vader" seats in. It really just depends on the car and the class I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PtBy Posted May 6, 2007 Share Posted May 6, 2007 Running a TTB car in socal. It's not gutted, just the rear seats are out and the air conditioning. It's been competitive with a few class wins. I sure wouldn't let that hold you back from jumping in and joining the fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodeoFlyer Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 This just brightened my day. I was under the impression from reading the classification forms that removing weight was assessed points as well. My 06 Mustang is a fat pig. It falls into TTB right now, and i'm about an air freshener away from being bumped into TTA. Shedding some fat would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebionicman Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Depends on the car. I am running in TTC with full interior, AC, stereo. I might try to get the weight down to the list number, but for now I plan on running it as is. I really enjoy being able to take it out for a spin and enjoy it. My ex didn't mind riding in it to give you an idea of how mild it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACER-X Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Running a TTB car in socal. It's not gutted, just the rear seats are out and the air conditioning. It's been competitive with a few class wins. I sure wouldn't let that hold you back from jumping in and joining the fun. LOL, "It's not gutted, just the rear seats are out and the air conditioning." What do you think the definition of gutting means? I think its funny just what people perceive as gutting or performance modifications. Doesn't matter that if you do part or all, its still the same. Man, what a can of worms we opened up here and 6 or 7 threads ago. No offence meant. I'm not try'n to pick on or single anybody out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Running a TTB car in socal. It's not gutted, just the rear seats are out and the air conditioning. It's been competitive with a few class wins. I sure wouldn't let that hold you back from jumping in and joining the fun. LOL, "It's not gutted, just the rear seats are out and the air conditioning." What do you think the definition of gutting means? I think its funny just what people perceive as gutting or performance modifications. Doesn't matter that if you do part or all, its still the same. Man, what a can of worms we opened up here and 6 or 7 threads ago. No offence meant. I'm not try'n to pick on or single anybody out. Gutted means gutted. A/C and rear seat is not gutted. He's probably removed less than a hundred pounds and not even starting to take advantage of the weight reduction rules. We dropped more than 400 lbs when we gutted the M3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IS300 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 This debate is a debate that is going to always occur in motorsports, because some prep to the limit of the rules while others choose not to. The people who choose to do so still have to be able to drive the car. I think at the start of this thread, the guy was asking whether or not a car can be competitive without "gutting" the car. I think the answer is 'yes'. I think that will change as the class progresses, but for now a car that is not gutted can still win. See Ya Chris #9 TTE Lexus IS300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 I agree. Any car can be competitive, period. I think TT is still good for kicks running what you brung. However, like they were telling us Sunday morning, when it comes to nationals you gotta pull out all the stops. That's where you will see the big difference between the daily drivers and the dedicated racers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACER-X Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 This debate is a debate that is going to always occur in motorsports, because some prep to the limit of the rules while others choose not to. The people who choose to do so still have to be able to drive the car. I think at the start of this thread, the guy was asking whether or not a car can be competitive without "gutting" the car. I think the answer is 'yes'. I think that will change as the class progresses, but for now a car that is not gutted can still win. See Ya Chris #9 TTE Lexus IS300 I'll agree on this. Gutted means gutted. A/C and rear seat is not gutted. He's probably removed less than a hundred pounds and not even starting to take advantage of the weight reduction rules. We dropped more than 400 lbs when we gutted the M3. I'm going to do the same thing with my rear seats but thats it. So no, my car will not be completly gutted. Your took yours all the way and they're probably others that are somewhere inbetween. So will split the difference and call it semi-gutted. Or how about weight reduction modifications or WRM for short. How many WRM's do you have?-All of them. Personally, If it took more than 5 min to remove my back seats, I wouldn't do it. To the orignial poster, sorry if I got to far off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr PS Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 How about a Wiki on what gutted means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 How about if we use the US Supreme Court's definition of "pornography": I know it when I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted May 8, 2007 National Staff Share Posted May 8, 2007 I still have the OEM full stereo, speakers, CD player, complete dash, steering wheel, driver's side carpet and floor insulation, and floor console (with no ballast for balancing) on my multiple championship winning car. Complete gutting is not a requirement to win. For those that want to remove the sound deadening/insulation stuff more easily--get dry ice and crush it into little pieces spread out over the area you want to remove. Let the insulation freeze up, then tap it with a rubber mallet. It usually breaks free cleanly without any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L98Terror Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 I'd say yes, I'll be running a 100% stock weight car in TTA actually I've added a few pounds in Bling. At this level driving ability will over come a few pounds, I've run two NASA TT events so far and got 1st in both. 100# isn't going to make me faster than running a better line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagakure Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 It all depends on what region you run and how competitive your class is...in norcal no full weight street car is going to win in TTA. Period. Not happenning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L98Terror Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 It all depends on what region you run and how competitive your class is...in norcal no full weight street car is going to win in TTA. Period. Not happenning. Bring it to Nationals and we'll find out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Our primary TTA car was weighed in by Ken at 3243# at Rockingham coming off track with the lighter of the two drivers (125#). The base weight for a '99 C5 is 3246# in TTB. So with the lightest driver in the team we can take off another 147# to stay within the 150# weight rules. It is a complete interior, cruise, ac, etc car. It is competitive here in the SE in TTA. I will look at how to drop 100# but since I just added a bigger radiator and oil cooler (with AN10 lines) and sway bars it is even heavier now. My new hood and exhaust is lighter but not enough to cover the recent adds I am sure I am with L98 Terror (and came in second to him in our other TTA car @ CMP - a stock 02 ZO6) - 100 pounds is not what is keeping me from winning with these cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACER-X Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 In the 1/4 mile, 100LBS = .100 sec. How many 1/4 mile streatches are there in a road coarse. You don't need a 1/4 mile to pull ahead of someone with a heavier car. Not to mention that your brakes have to stop 100lbs more in the corner, which means you need to start slowing down that much sooner and when exiting that same 100 lbs slows you down. Lets not forget the cornering forces are 100 lbs more too. Your tires would like 100 lbs less. Your right, its not much but every lbs counts. The guys with the Vette's have the power and low center of gravity to start with. How about the rest of us who don't have Vette's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted June 7, 2007 Share Posted June 7, 2007 In the 1/4 mile, 100LBS = .100 sec. How many 1/4 mile streatches are there in a road coarse. You don't need a 1/4 mile to pull ahead of someone with a heavier car. Not to mention that your brakes have to stop 100lbs more in the corner, which means you need to start slowing down that much sooner and when exiting that same 100 lbs slows you down. Lets not forget the cornering forces are 100 lbs more too. Your tires would like 100 lbs less. Your right, its not much but every lbs counts. The guys with the Vette's have the power and low center of gravity to start with. How about the rest of us who don't have Vette's? I drove a 2001 Mustang in the 2007 One Lap of America - they do need a diet. My wife's 2005 GTO also badly needs a diet (the car - not her to make sure there is no confusion). 100 pounds is about the same as 10-15 hp but helps everywhere, as you say. But since I cannot get consistent 60 foot times at a dragstrip for love nor money - the 100 pounds (or more) there are not hurting me (my lack of consistent launching ability is). My co-driver is over 100 pounds less than me and the car is set up for him. I often beat him since we share cars on the same day at various tracks here in the SE. When he beats me I do attribute it to the weight I might add - but it is really cause he drove better than me - or had a cleaner lap - or the track conditions were better in his sessions.... Until you get all out of the car it will do - mods and lightning merely mask the fact you are not maxing the capabilities (just look at my mph vs ET at a dragstrip to see that example!). I have run against stripped cars in TTA (FFRs are an example!) and full up cars (L98Terror). We have beat and lost to both - I really wish we could attribute it to a few 100 pounds of interior and AC... I know when I am riding the bumper of Brunton Superstalker through the twisties at Road ATL or Rockingham I sure do hate it when they accelerate away from me like I am a dump truck on the straights - and that is power to weight (luckily not in my TTA class though!). I can normally catch them in the brake zones though to repeat the process.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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