harness bar

[redSC]

After running my first HPDE at Putnam last weekend, I came to the conclusion that I need a better seat & restraint system. My question is, would a harness bar and a 5 point harness be acceptable and could I use my stock seat? BTW had a great time and can't say enough about the NASA staff, friendly professional and fun !

[mcolangelo2005]

I can't speak for your region, but here in SoCal I was told that my stock reclinable seat wasn't safe to use with the harness bar on my rollbar. The reason being that in the event of a collision, the seat might snap back and my head would impact the harness bar with the possibility of breaking my neck.

 

I was told to instead use a one-piece (non-reclining) racing seat. It was good advice and I have since bought a kevlar FIA racing seat to go with my 5-point harness to use for track days. I revert back to the stock seat for normal street driving.

 

By the way, a racing seat is a great investment. That seat plus the harness allowed me to concentrate on driving and not worry about bracing my body during turns. I bought the Cobra Suzuka seat and feel "locked in" to the car even in hard cornering. It's great!

[avgjoe]

#1 Yes

#2 NO

 

Read this: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=126802 .

 

It was posted at miata.net but a lot of the information is general enough that it applies to any car. I was there last weekend in HPDE1A in the red Miata(919). It took me several days to fab up some stuff so I could mount drivers and passengers seat low enough so my head was below the "broomstick". I did it in such away that I could remove both seats and harness bar and re-install the factory seats in about 45 minutes. I used an Ultrashield SM seat for me and a Kirkey (borrowed) seat for the passenger. Going this route required that I use a seat back brace which I mounted to the harness bar, but I'd rather bend the AL seat than cut/modify the floor pan to fit a FIA seat. Depending on your car you may be able to easily put in a FIA seat. I read somewhere on the 'net (FWIW) that in order for the FIA seats to remain FIA compliant they must be mounted with the seat specific mounting brackets. Whatever you do it will be worth it; you'll feel the car better and you won't have to use the steering wheel to keep yourself in position allowing smoother steering inputs. Also your left leg will thank you. Pay attention to the routing of the harness especially the relationship between your shoulders the harness bar and the holes in the seat. Follow the mfg's instructions and the rules in the CCR. A lot of this may seem like overkill but in my short 2.5 years of being at the track I've come to realize that S#$* can and will happen so you need to be prepared for it. It's you head, sombody will miss you, blah blah blah.... The bottom line is be responsible for yourself so everyone will not have to pay the consequences later.

 

Also, unless you have a supper NON-addictive personality I'd bet your going to be doing this a lot more. So every thing you put in to it will be worth the effort.

 

Joe

[99HOSS]

redSC - it's not really recommended to run just a harness bar and harnesses in a road racing environment ,though in Auto X it'd be OK.

 

Mainly because if there was a rollover, the roof would come down on you and you'd have nowhere to go.

 

The other issue of the seat and the seatback breaking in a rear impact is a possibility. If there is a bar back behind the seat and it breaks, well you get the picture.

 

Stick with the stock DOT belts while you're learning. There are a few tricks that can help keep you planted, like a GC lock or just twisting the belts, if you are sitting on leather or vinyl, put in a section of the foam shelf liner material to keep you from moving att all.

[zuperdave]

I've been using the CG lock on my stock belts for a while now. Not nearly as good as a racing seat with a harness, but a huge improvement over the stock seatbelts. Well worth the $50 or whatever it was and only took a few minutes to install.

[RodeoFlyer]

I wear a 4-point Shroth harness that mounts to the factory lap belt anchors and then attaches to a rear seat belt buckle. It works quite well and I believe it's DOT approved. I'm in the same boat for the moment - race harness requires seat, requires cage, yada yada. By the end of the year it will all be there lol.

 

For now I reccomend the Shroth unit - it's about $150. It's just like a regular seatbelt but 4-points instead of 3. It helped me a lot. You can find it anywhere that sells autocross stuff. it's really popular with them.

[beerkat]

I have a C5ZO6 that I do HPDEs in. I have a B-K harness bar and harness mounting points so I can run Simpson's 6 point harness with the stock seats. The issue with the seat back breaking and falling backwards into the bar in not an issue with the vette because of the way the car is made. I would rather have racing seats but the cost of what I want will put them off for a while.

[mcolangelo2005]

I'm in the same boat for the moment - race harness requires seat, requires cage, yada yada. By the end of the year it will all be there lol.

.

 

Matt, are you turning your '06 Mustang GT into a race car? How am I ever going to catch you?

[RodeoFlyer]

.......teehee

 

 

it's all part of my master plan

[nasaregistrar]

I wear a 4-point Shroth harness that mounts to the factory lap belt anchors and then attaches to a rear seat belt buckle. It works quite well and I believe it's DOT approved. I'm in the same boat for the moment - race harness requires seat, requires cage, yada yada. By the end of the year it will all be there lol.

 

For now I reccomend the Shroth unit - it's about $150. It's just like a regular seatbelt but 4-points instead of 3. It helped me a lot. You can find it anywhere that sells autocross stuff. it's really popular with them.

This will not pass tech in the MA region. We have reviewed the belts, and read the letter on the schroth site. It is NOT DOT approved because it is an aftermarket product. Schroth certifies it meets the requirements but is is self certification. Only a car owner could install these. A manufacturer could not.

[bryanrome]

I wear a 4-point Shroth harness that mounts to the factory lap belt anchors and then attaches to a rear seat belt buckle. It works quite well and I believe it's DOT approved.

 

I drove a Mini in an autox once with a setup like that... I opted for the stock seatbelt. If you get into a front end collision with the shoulder straps so low you risk spine compression.

 

I, like Beerkat (by the way, I'm the one who IDed you on z06vette.com earlier this month), have a Z06. There is a crossbar behind the seat and fuel tanks are below it. This causes the floor to rise suddenly less than a couple inches behind the seats, making it impossible for the seatback to bend much more than a couple inches back. I feel safer running a harness bar in that car with reclinable seats (the stock seats dont have pass throughs for the shoulder belts so I replaced them). The lack of rollover protection is still a worry to me but I'd rather be in a rollover in a Z06 than a T-Top car . I plan to build a roll bar some time in the next year or so (my dad is thinking about buying a tubing bender and I already have some experience welding).

[cosm3os]

I've run with some pretty conservative groups, but I have never had one prohibit the use of the Schroth 4pt clip ins with stock seats. While not DOT approved, they function the same as 3pts in that in a rollover they stretch so as to allow the occupant to roll forward so as not to be crushed (unlike a 5 pt with a harness bar as noted above).

 

Further, the spine compression injury thing is only an issue if you mount the belts in the rear at too steep an angle (ie if you were to bolt them to the floor. The angle created with the use of the seatbelt mounting points is fine.

 

Bottom line, when you start mixing street safety equipment with race safety equipment you are more likely to create an infinitely more dangerous condition.

[bryanrome]

Further, the spine compression injury thing is only an issue if you mount the belts in the rear at too steep an angle (ie if you were to bolt them to the floor. The angle created with the use of the seatbelt mounting points is fine.

 

The shoulder straps in the Mini were 65 deg below level. I was under the impression that proper angle should be 10 to 15 deg low at the most.

[cosm3os]

I've only had experience with them in VW and BMW applications. In each case they were probably close to 60. The danger point is steeper. Like I said, the example of a bad install I always heard was on the floor.

[bryanrome]

I've only had experience with them in VW and BMW applications. In each case they were probably close to 60. The danger point is steeper. Like I said, the example of a bad install I always heard was on the floor.

 

Back in high school, I was one of the race prep people for our '73 Nova which we raced a few times a year. Our instructor, who owned the car, had the y-type shoulder belt mounted to the floor, bent forward underneath the seat... I wasn't old enough to drive, but when I found out that's how he harness was routed I asked to leave the team until he had a proper shoulder belt mounted to the cage (which the car had nonetheless). I didn't want to be in any way responsible for any spinal injuries. To my knowledge, even several years later, he did not fix it.

[Frank Corkran]

Instead of guessing, why not refer to the CCR?

 

"15.5.6. The shoulder harness shall be mounted behind the driver and above a line drawn downward from the shoulder point at an angle of no more than twenty (20) degrees with the horizontal."