Weltmeister sways = understeer?

[genikz]

I have a stock 924S front bar (23mm) and a Welt rear bar and I'm pretty happy with the setup, though I'm on street tires. I've got a slight bit of oversteer, but the car is pretty balanced.

 

Wouldn't adding a huge 28mm front bar induce more-than-desired understeer?

 

I'm debating spending $450 on the Welt front sway, since I like the setup now; I guess I'm just confused why most 944-Spec racers are running frnot and rear Welts. Is it because of the inceased grip of the RA1's?

 

How about a 27mm stock turbo front sway bar with a 22mm adjustable rear Welt sway bar? Anybody running that setup?

[944-Spec#94]

I have a stock 924S front bar (23mm) and a Welt rear bar and I'm pretty happy with the setup, though I'm on street tires. I've got a slight bit of oversteer, but the car is pretty balanced.

 

...

 

I guess I'm just confused why most 944-Spec racers are running frnot and rear Welts.

 

Balance is affected by alot of factors. Sway bars are just one of those factors. One reason I love the welt bars is that I can adjust them to suit my tastes both front and rear. These bars along with the rest of the suspension work well on my car.

 

 

Now the bigger bar just may incude understeer on your car. Then again maybe you can put in the bar, tweak some other settings and ultimatly go faster. Would you beleive at one point I swapped 28 mm t-bars for 30 mm t-bars and the balance stayed the same. Yep I love the balnace with 28's and maintined the balance wtih 30's. However also made 2-3 other tweaks, like ride height, camber, and rear sway bar settings at the same time. My goal with change was to reduce my rear sway bar stiffness, but maintain balance. The reason for this was too stiff a rear sway bar with an open diff was hurting me on the track. I was able to make the change and as such maintain balance in the corners, but also add rear grip to greatly reduce inside wheel spin.

 

So that is just one example of how the entire suspension works together to create balance you feel and the ultimate speed for the car.

 

Yes... it is complex stuff.

[Sterling Doc]

I have a stock 924S front bar (23mm) and a Welt rear bar and I'm pretty happy with the setup, though I'm on street tires. I've got a slight bit of oversteer, but the car is pretty balanced.

 

Wouldn't adding a huge 28mm front bar induce more-than-desired understeer?

 

I'm debating spending $450 on the Welt front sway, since I like the setup now; I guess I'm just confused why most 944-Spec racers are running frnot and rear Welts. Is it because of the inceased grip of the RA1's?

 

How about a 27mm stock turbo front sway bar with a 22mm adjustable rear Welt sway bar? Anybody running that setup?

 

Well, I've got at 25.5mm turbo front bar and Welt rear, set 3/4 stiff. With 350lb/30mm springs/torsions it's netural enough that just shock tuning tilts it one way or the other (under/over steer).

[genikz]

Thanks for the reponses guys. I think it's because I have 400# springs up front that I can get away with such a small front anti-roll bar. I think I'll get a bigger front bar and run the 350# springs I have laying around. I guess I just need to find what works for me, but a general idea is always nice. Hell, that's what got me 90% there in just one shot (thanks 944-Spec racers!)

[944-Spec#94]

Don't be so fast to ditch the 400lbs for a bigger sway bar. In real racing car circles they use springs to control body movement and sways are a tuning device only. In face some purpose build race cars don't use sways at all.

 

Something to think about.

[genikz]

Don't be so fast to ditch the 400lbs for a bigger sway bar. In real racing car circles they use springs to control body movement and sways are a tuning device only. In face some purpose build race cars don't use sways at all.

 

Something to think about.

 

Good point, Joe. It's probably best to only modify one thing at a time and then test the car out.

[JSilverman]

Don't be so fast to ditch the 400lbs for a bigger sway bar. In real racing car circles they use springs to control body movement and sways are a tuning device only.

THats why I have kept the sway ba sotck for now. Especially the rear with a non LSD transmission. I can already light up the inside wheel whenever I want and a bigger bar would only make it worse!

[944-Spec#94]

I can already light up the inside wheel whenever I want and a bigger bar would only make it worse!

 

That applies to a bigger REAR bar. A bigger front bar may reduce wheelspin. One thing I have learnd about set-up a car with an open diff is that there are many things you can do to limit/reduce wheelspin. However this can and does inpact the car elsewhere on the track. So you need to decide what is optimal. At PIR for example I can dial out nearly all the wheelspin, but make the overall lap times slower due to a poor balance. So my compromise is that I need to allow some wheelspin that I manage with throttle in order to achieve the balance I want elsewhere.

 

Also consider wheelspin just like balance is impacted by more than just spings and sways.

[mfoley]

I have 400lb springs and a 30mm torsion bar. I have koni shocks. I have a Tarrett front bar and no bar in the rear. I have an LSD. The best thing about my car is I've run it this way for 1.5 years on many different tracks. I've been fast including a track record and I've never touched the front bar. It is set in the middle. I'm sure there is more speed in my car but I have fun, I'm competitive and I don't have to spend the weekend working on setup. I have never done a test and tune day. For instance at Cal Speedway, my last event, I beat the old track record (Mikael, however beat me by 1 sec ), I took 2nd and 1st in the cup races and I never once jacked the car up.

[genikz]

Mark, I'm putting your rear Welt to good use! Let me know when you're ready to sell your front bar

 

I'll probably bite the bullet, pick up the front Welt and just try it out with my existing setup. If it turns out I don't like the bigger front bar, I know I can sell it for near what I bought it for...since I've never seen one for sale in the 12 months I've been looking for a used one! I guess the moral of the story is you need the adjustability of the bars to dial it in to your style.

[944-Spec#94]

I guess the moral of the story is you need the adjustability of the bars to dial it in to your style.

 

Well the moral of the story is there are many different ways of making a 944 spec car handle well.

[genikz]

I guess the moral of the story is you need the adjustability of the bars to dial it in to your style.

 

Well the moral of the story is there are many different ways of making a 944 spec car handle well.

 

Oh, of course, I was just saying that in regard to the front Weltmeister bar over say a turbo non-adjustable front bar.

 

If I wasn't so bored at work I wouldn't worry about this stuff so much. I have to much free time and not enough seat time!

[mfoley]

Another way of looking at is to get the car close and drive the hell out of it. Adjust your style for the different tracks. It's all about seat time.

 

Chris - I sold my front bar to the son of a friend of mine. Sorry.