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How does NASA police AWD Turbo cars?


L98Terror

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it shouldn't, but does your region take TT seriously enough (or have the spare cash) to have the GPS boxes and use them for compliance?

 

I guess that's a question for our local directors, I don't have the answer for it. But a much cheaper solution would be to have the dyno shop "seal" the boost controller after the run that is to be used for competition classing. A little piece of tape makes the playing field level...

 

From what I hear it's not that is easy, a few turbo guys I know tell me unless all the boost control stuff is 100% stock (including all hoses) there is no reasonable way of knowing if someone is playing games.

 

good discussion but it seems the real answer is self policing, how do you know if a NA car has a cam??? The issue I guess is if you have a NA car and mod it without telling it's harder to unmod after one run or before being checked out, with the AWD cars not being able to dyno at the track makes it even harder.

 

For the record I have not come across this issue but I have heard some thing and thought it would make for a good discussion.

 

Don't forget the Lamborghini Murcielago

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I don't know, a certain AWD Turbo car at Gratton (I don't think in any way shape or form this guy was cheating) ran a 127.1xx his second fastest lap was a 127.9xx and on Sunday ran a best of 128.650 your looking at a second and a half and no one raised and eyebrow. For reference I ran a 127.494 on Sat & a 127.465 on Sunday so it's not like track conditions varied.

 

And the kicker is, He's not modded to the extent of the rules. Why would they raise an eyebrow, if his times got slower? I'd imagine, if you're running away from your competitors at a 2-3 second gap, you have some explaining to do, but if you have a protest, protest. I think it's a line of crap that the car owner is forced to prove his compliance though. I feel that if he complies within the rules, the protestor should be footing the bill, no questions asked. (dyno time, cost to haul it there, gas to run it, etc). If he doesn't, then by all means, the illegal car should be paying.

 

Just because the hot "new" ticket is a 4 door car, and lots of people are running them, doesn't mean you should nail on them. AWD is not the fastest platform, it's just argueably the easiest to drive.

 

Looking at SCCA, you can see amazing stuff outta the lotus's, i think we should overly nail on those guys.

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I don't know, a certain AWD Turbo car at Gratton (I don't think in any way shape or form this guy was cheating) ran a 127.1xx his second fastest lap was a 127.9xx and on Sunday ran a best of 128.650 your looking at a second and a half and no one raised and eyebrow. For reference I ran a 127.494 on Sat & a 127.465 on Sunday so it's not like track conditions varied.

 

And the kicker is, He's not modded to the extent of the rules. Why would they raise an eyebrow, if his times got slower? I'd imagine, if you're running away from your competitors at a 2-3 second gap, you have some explaining to do, but if you have a protest, protest. I think it's a line of crap that the car owner is forced to prove his compliance though. I feel that if he complies within the rules, the protestor should be footing the bill, no questions asked. (dyno time, cost to haul it there, gas to run it, etc). If he doesn't, then by all means, the illegal car should be paying.

 

Just because the hot "new" ticket is a 4 door car, and lots of people are running them, doesn't mean you should nail on them. AWD is not the fastest platform, it's just argueably the easiest to drive.

 

Looking at SCCA, you can see amazing stuff outta the lotus's, i think we should overly nail on those guys.

 

 

Why would they raise an eyebrow? I was responding to this post as quoted in my post, it was stated that if you run slower you'd have to explain it, I've never seen anyone have to explain why they ran slower.

 

Without you knowing? If you know they put it in there you just run a little slower? Right

 

then you have to explain why your car was 3 seconds faster in that other session with supposedly no changes....

 

 

What does him being modded to the extent of the rules have to do with the price of tea in china?

 

I think you are missing my point here, my point is (actually counterpoint)just because someone doesn't run consistant times doesn't mean they are screwing around. or maybe you didn't read the entire thread.

 

and he was 2-3 seconds faster in TTS & I was 2-3 seconds faster in TTA.

 

Actually I believe TTS,TTU & TTR rules dictate that you do prove you comply & the point is NASA can pull a rrd or fwd car right off the track and onto the dyno but you can't do that with an awd car....& a turning boost up and down is very easy.not sure what 4 doors has to do with anything.

 

and I agree if you are found legal the protester should pay.

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I don't know, a certain AWD Turbo car at Gratton (I don't think in any way shape or form this guy was cheating) ran a 127.1xx his second fastest lap was a 127.9xx and on Sunday ran a best of 128.650 your looking at a second and a half and no one raised and eyebrow. For reference I ran a 127.494 on Sat & a 127.465 on Sunday so it's not like track conditions varied.

 

And the kicker is, He's not modded to the extent of the rules. Why would they raise an eyebrow, if his times got slower? I'd imagine, if you're running away from your competitors at a 2-3 second gap, you have some explaining to do, but if you have a protest, protest. I think it's a line of crap that the car owner is forced to prove his compliance though. I feel that if he complies within the rules, the protestor should be footing the bill, no questions asked. (dyno time, cost to haul it there, gas to run it, etc). If he doesn't, then by all means, the illegal car should be paying.

 

Just because the hot "new" ticket is a 4 door car, and lots of people are running them, doesn't mean you should nail on them. AWD is not the fastest platform, it's just argueably the easiest to drive.

 

Looking at SCCA, you can see amazing stuff outta the lotus's, i think we should overly nail on those guys.

 

 

Why would they raise an eyebrow? I was responding to this post as quoted in my post, it was stated that if you run slower you'd have to explain it, I've never seen anyone have to explain why they ran slower.

 

Without you knowing? If you know they put it in there you just run a little slower? Right

 

then you have to explain why your car was 3 seconds faster in that other session with supposedly no changes....

 

 

What does him being modded to the extent of the rules have to do with the price of tea in china?

 

I think you are missing my point here, my point is (actually counterpoint)just because someone doesn't run consistant times doesn't mean they are screwing around. or maybe you didn't read the entire thread.

 

and he was 2-3 seconds faster in TTS & I was 2-3 seconds faster in TTA.

 

Actually I believe TTS,TTU & TTR rules dictate that you do prove you comply & the point is NASA can pull a rrd or fwd car right off the track and onto the dyno but you can't do that with an awd car....& a turning boost up and down is very easy.not sure what 4 doors has to do with anything.

 

and I agree if you are found legal the protester should pay.

 

Actually, i kinda misunderstood your statement. With the times being close, i thought you were running the same class, and flip flopped winners both days.

 

Boost controllers need sealed before the event, plain and simple, no turning up/down.

 

Same as ECU based boost control/timing/fuel settings, can't be changed during an event. If you show up and start off with an illegal car, it's up to someone else to call you out on it.

 

I've had times, whether it's a suspension adjustment that made things worse, an exhaust leak, or whatnot else, that completely skewed my timing results. I agree that nasa needs to monitor it, no doubt. However, i'm out to have fun. Sure, i'd love to win, and i'll push the car to the edge of my ability, but if someone's faster, so be it.

 

When at nationals, i'd like the ability (and never having gone, i'm not sure if it's available), but to get on the "official" rollers for the event, do my passes, and 100% confirm i'm within my power limits. I realize this is a pain, being AWD, but it's the right thing to do, imo.

 

No boost controller in my car, all ecu based, so theres no "he turned the knob" here.

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2Dr AWD

 

Porsche 911 C4

Audi A4

BMW 330XI

 

I thought the A4 and 330Xi only came in 4 door versions.

 

Anyway, point taken. Leave it to the Porsches to make a mess of things

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Yes sir Porsche Turbo AWD 2dr and Turbos all in one. I wont be at nationals but will be at several other events, However with my car, the input shaft can be removed in 15 minutes to be converted to RWD for the dyno and then taken back to AWD which is what I will have to do otherwise I'm stuck in TTR where I dont belong.

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2Dr AWD

 

Porsche 911 C4

Audi A4

BMW 330XI

 

I thought the A4 and 330Xi only came in 4 door versions.

 

Anyway, point taken. Leave it to the Porsches to make a mess of things

 

i think you're correct. no 2-door a4. but there are other awd 2-door audi's.

tt's and older quatro coupes come to mind. also s4/rs4 verts

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