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Az vs So Cal Crossover at Willow Aug 11-12 All 944s Invited


944-Spec#94

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BTW, Ryan told me that if a few more of you 944 drivers would have shown up, it might have been our class that was picked for the TV coverage. Oh, well.

 

And if I picked Saturdays winning lotto numbers on Sunday, I'd be driving a cup car! Way to go letting people know in advance?

 

Currently we have 8 944 Spec cars going to Laguna in less than 2 weeks. We will see how that goes? Couple newbies, couple regulars.

 

P.D.

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Had a great time racing in SOCAL Country this weekend. I was able to shakedown a couple of new parts in some pretty demanding conditions (new oil cooler, cool suit, video camera, and TraqMate). All systems worked well in the heat except the video camera, too much vibration. I thought Ryan and company did a great job keeping everything moving smoothly all weekend with minimal interruptions to the racers.

 

Special personal thanks go to Mikael and Jim Foxx for their valuable assistance and advice, and to Barbara for her hospitality. Mikael generously gave up his practice time on Sunday in order to drive and evaluate my car. I really needed a boost in confidence in order to progress as a driver and knowing that all is well with my car is what allowed me to concentrate on driving faster. I was able to pick up a modest amount of time and this is due in no small part to Mikael and Jim's willingness to share their experience with me. Many thanks!

 

Mikael, with your permission, I would like to post your data from the TraqMate sessions on the sites that share this information. I think it would be valuable to others as well. Although I have only scratched the surface of the amount of data available in TraqMate, I am certain it helped me this weekend and am very glad I got it. I will post the data on the TraqMate website and on Trackpedia.

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Dylan,

We weren't told any of the details in advance. I heard rumors about some TV thing. That's it.

I hope you guys have some great racing at Laguna and I hope all the guys who say they're going to show up actually do. That's life, but obviously, the more, the merrier.

Safe trip up there and back!

I'll be running the Tijuana Grand Prix down here.

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We weren't told any of the details in advance. I heard rumors about some TV thing. That's it.

 

That was my point. If they wanted more 944's to show up, maybe an incentive like this might have bought some out of the garages? No point tell everyone that 'after' the fact. They should have announced it up front?

 

As for no shows? We are usually pretty good about all driver's showing up? Save mechanicals, last minute commitments.

 

P.D.

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Tim,

 

My Point was the the main motivation for the rules was closer racing... THis is something we all want. However, if the racing is not actually closer, but further apart as it seems to be, and we are having difficulty getting cars out.... (I don't ever remember a race where nobody was even within a second of the leader) perhaps we can either call this whole thing an experiment that didn't work and go back to the old rules, or disband 944SPEC all together and all run CUP...

 

At least we would get some cars out....

 

just my $.02

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Jim,

I had many races where no other cars were within a second of me.

 

The gap between first and second/third positions this time around was because Glen had to back off because his car was overheating (2nd fan wasn't working until we fixed it), and I have a tired engine and was running on old tires. The rest of the pack are good drivers who just needed more time at Willow.

There was no experiment at all regarding the rules.

 

There are many guys coming up in SoCal who value the new spec rules. Suggesting to disband 944 spec is silly. People like the class and what it stands for. I understand you have an investment in your car in terms of time and money. That's ok. Keep it that way.

 

There's nothing stopping you from entering your car in the NASA 944 Cup class. That would be positive and constructive. Trying to disband 944 spec is negative and destructive.

Let's all work to get more 944's on the track no matter what class they enter in.

Let's build it up to be the biggest group in the small bore classes!

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Tim,

 

My Point was the the main motivation for the rules was closer racing... THis is something we all want. However, if the racing is not actually closer, but further apart as it seems to be, and we are having difficulty getting cars out.... (I don't ever remember a race where nobody was even within a second of the leader) perhaps we can either call this whole thing an experiment that didn't work and go back to the old rules, or disband 944SPEC all together and all run CUP...

 

At least we would get some cars out....

 

just my $.02

 

Jim

We have had some great racing in Arizona both before the rules changes and after the rules changes. Remember the Az guys complied with June 2007 updates in the Jan-March time frame. 944 spec is doing quite well and we have no intention of going back to the way it was.

 

Jim at this point have tired of your complaints about the new rules. You have the freedom to either comply with rules or run in 944 cup or just POC. Saying that 944 spec should be disbaneded because you and 2-3 other guys don't like the rules is just silly. Jim 944 spec no longer revolves around so-cal and willow springs.

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Jim,

We have had some great racing in Arizona both before the rules changes and after the rules changes.

 

Joe, I agree. I watch the event results and am jealous as to your attendance. You are doing a great job with your region.

 

Jim at this point I have tired of your complaints about the new rules. You have the freedom to either comply with rules or run in 944 cup or just POC.

 

Well Joe, I really cant care whether you determine my constructive criticism and suggestion of new ideas as "complaining" or whether or not YOU are tired of it. You neither make the rules or have any ownership in NASA, and clearly those who DO make the rules, have got to be wondering if they didn't get poor advice for this last rule change. I think NASA owners and managers also read this board, and enjoy new ideas to increase participation. SoCal has little or no participation and I would think ANY idea to boost it would be helpful to Ryan and NASA... sorry you don't concur.

 

Saying that 944 spec should be disbaneded because you and 2-3 other guys don't like the rules is just silly. Jim 944 spec no longer revolves around so-cal and willow springs.

 

Where to start... 944spec NEVER revolved around SoCal, (and especially Willow Springs...(please remember, we run more than one track) However, if you read my whole comment, my suggestion was to disband 944spec AND ROLL it into Cup... This is not an assault on 944SPEC, or a complaint. It is a well thought out idea, that would increase door-to-door competition within every district (even AZ) in the country... In SoCal alone, it would increase participation by 4-5 times. The more door to door there is, in any region, the more cars racing IN CLASS creates a greater draw... Get 20 cars to every event? The series will grow like Wildfire. This idea also creates total crossover. In SoCal, guys could race NASA and POC. In the East NASA and PCA. YOU, of all people, should know how divisive rules can be... This would also allow crossover from NASA to SCCA. The more people can race their cars, the more they will come to NASA. It is a quality organization. But creating a set of rules that is only good for one organization and one class? Thats narrow minded. Now, Joe. Just because YOU don't agree with this idea, doesn't make it worth slandering me, or "2-3 other guys"... (BTW, there were more guys forced out of 944SPEC in Socal because of these rules, than RUN in AZ....) And just because this might not be perfect for AZ, doesn't mean it is not right for SoCal and the rest of the Country.

 

Anyway. My post was certainly not meant to get you riled up, and I certainly didn't mean to make you so defensive. (offensive?) It does bother me that although change was forced upon a lot of us that didn't want it, you are not willing to consider it. I still feel that this is a great idea... ONE 944 series in NASA that allows ALL the cars to race...and we all race together....

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Jim,

 

Your idea has merit and should be considered by NASA's management. I hope they are reading this forum.

 

To NASA management: I would support this new series with my participation and my dollars, not just my typed words on this forum.

 

Mark Foley

#399

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...my suggestion was to disband 944spec AND ROLL it into Cup... ...In SoCal alone, it would increase participation by 4-5 times...

 

Jim,

There is NOTHING stopping you or any of those other so-cal guys that would make these 4 or 5x fields from running right now. If you guys wanted cup where were you?

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Just to clarify Joe, I think he is saying to roll Spec into Cup with, say, a lower class weight for the spec cars. Making one class of bigger cars. Or, if your worried about symantics, then roll the Cups into Spec with a higher class weight. Either way you word it, you take 2 small classes and make a bigger class?

 

P.D.

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Dylan,

A 944 spec car preppared to 2006 NASA rules can run in 944 cup in 2007 at 2550lbs. It has been that way all year. All you do is sign up for 944 cup using SP1 prep and are done with it.

 

I have yet to see any So-Cal cars doing that. If you want to just combine spec and cup it is already there. Nothing needs to be done other than show up.

 

So again Jim where were you?

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Actually Joe, I was there on Friday, and if ONE other car would have entered I would have stayed around and raced...

 

Unfortunately, the simple definition of racing, to me, is having at least one other car to race against... However, since there were NO cars in Cup... It didn't really seem worthwhile... no if all the cars that showed up were in the same class? That would have been fun.

 

so thats my story... yours?

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This was one of the suggestions made a long time ago and still holds merit. It would seem that since Cup has found a way of balancing out the different cars and prep levels including adding Spec to the Cup rules it would seem the best and easiest way to get large fields would be to make 1 class. Cup. That way if you want a car that is built to simple rules you build to Spec. If you like to do more build to Cup, but with the way Cup added Spec you can all race together.

Now let's all hold hands and sing!

In fact it was also suggested that Spec Directors talk to DD and reach consensus on equalizing the rules between the 2. Even adusting the weighhts till parity was reached.

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so thats my story... yours?

 

I have been to every race I can afford to go to this year. I missed out on both California races due to lack of funds. Two mortgages is NOT condusive to racing especially considering the addeded costs of out of state events. With any luck I will be back racing at PIR this September and for the remainder of the season.

 

Back to the point Jim, how is anyone else going to go an race cup of you packed up and went home? I thought you were tying to bring some of your POC guys with you. Like I said there was NO BARRIER to you guys running in 944 cup.

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This was one of the suggestions made a long time ago and still holds merit. It would seem that since Cup has found a way of balancing out the different cars and prep levels including adding Spec to the Cup rules it would seem the best and easiest way to get large fields would be to make 1 class. Cup. That way if you want a car that is built to simple rules you build to Spec. If you like to do more build to Cup, but with the way Cup added Spec you can all race together.

Now let's all hold hands and sing!

In fact it was also suggested that Spec Directors talk to DD and reach consensus on equalizing the rules between the 2. Even adusting the weighhts till parity was reached.

 

Eric... SP1 prep (2006 NASA prep) has been allowed in 944 cup since 2006. There is simply nothing to do as it already exists. If all of Jim's guys who are upset with 944 spec rules (whoever they are) simply run cup then 944 cup will overwhelm 944 spec in so-cal. However I have seen only 1 car run in 944 cup in just 1 race between Arizona and Southern California. That was in Arizona this past January and full fledged 944 cup car (non sp1 prep).

 

So Jim where are these guys and why did they not sign up for 944 cup with you? Seems like they left you all alone out there.

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Race results are up on mylaps.com.

 

I'm still smiling from that weekend at Willow.....

So is Jimmy Hicks.....

Everybody I've talked to, post race, had a great weekend! Not one sourpuss.

 

Next time, bring your 944 out and come race all at the same time with NASA in the 944 Challenge. You don't have to change your headers, chips, struts, just come race with us.

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A 944 spec car preppared to 2006 NASA rules can run in 944 cup in 2007 at 2550lbs. It has been that way all year. All you do is sign up for 944 cup using SP1 prep and are done with it.

 

Would that make the Spec car competitive against the Cup car, dropping 50 #'s alone? And, would anyone do it? I think what they are trying to say is create "one" set of rules to try increase the turn-out? Sure, Jim could have stayed and run, but against who? Well maybe Mikael I suppose but he was running Spec speed, Jim would be running Cup speed and those are not the same?

 

P.D.

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There IS one set of rules, Dylan. How about changing the POC GSR rules to match the updated NASA ones?

 

If Foley, Marks, Dicius, Yousko and whoever else is running at POC events showed up at NASA events and entered in the 944 Cup class, they would have someone to race against. But they don't.......

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There IS one set of rules, Dylan. How about changing the POC GSR rules to match the updated NASA ones?

 

If Foley, Marks, Dicius, Yousko and whoever else is running at POC events showed up at NASA events and entered in the 944 Cup class, they would have someone to race against. But they don't.......

 

Because they already have it at POC. Why spend more money for the same thing? Ergo, the request to create a bigger class. To create incentive to come run in a bigger field. POC didn't change the rules becuase the participants didn't ask for it? It was (and still is) run by the driver's. Yeah, the POC 944 Spec is more expensive than the NASA spec, I understand that. I myself didn't want to spend more money on a 944. But, it is what it is. In hindsight it would have been cheaper for me to throw in an LSD and a header and run up front with POC. Hell, even without the header I think I could/would run the front of NASA with the LSD alone. But, that's not the point. I'm not trying to argue, just trying to see if each party understands where Jim (and others) is coming from. Pre rules change, you had larger fields showing up. Post rules change, the driver's dropped off the map. The people that supported or campaigned for the changes, are just not showing up. So give it back to those that are? Or, combine it as suggested. If I still had my car, I would welcome running the Spec rules with less weight against the Cup rules. Because I wouldn't have to spend expensive $ on engine mods. I WOULD have to buy the LSD, I think people are kidding themselves if they think it doesn't make time (varies at each track style). Anyway, I think combing classes has merit. Just checking if people understood what the goal was? We've heard from Tim and Joe, what about the other supported of the new rules who are out enjoying the tight spec racing, what say yea? It's your rules, did it achieve your goals? Are you enjoying the close racing? Speak up gentlemen.

 

P.D.

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...It's your rules, did it achieve your goals? Are you enjoying the close racing? Speak up gentlemen.

 

P.D.

I am enjoying the racing in Arizona. Stock chips, stock headers, are no bilstien firehawk are 3 less things to worry about when competing. 3 fewer places for excuses and 3 few things to mess with when building.

 

 

Jim has been trying to say that "all these guys are just dying to come NASA racing, but can't due to the rules changes. Change the rules back and they will come." The problem is that they can come out and race right now as is with Zero changes but have not. The August event was an invite to have more guys come out even if the spec guys were in a different "class" they would all share the same track. Even so who showed up. Jim, but then he left on Friday when none of HIS guys cam out too. That does not make me think they will come out even if we change the rules back.

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While we're waiting.....

Dylan, you're wrong about the rules being "ours". POC is a very localized, non-profit, member-driven club. NASA is a business. We in the class don't make the rules. Many people were asked about the rules changes that were intended to bring the higher HP cars back in line with the average cars. NASA went with what they knew was best for the class. The rest of the country is building 944 spec cars. The only complaining regarding the rules is coming from a small contingent in SoCal.

 

Drivers are showing up again in the SoCal 944 spec class at NASA events. We'll have even more at the next event at Buttonwillow, both racing and HPDE'ers.

Bring your 944's out and race at one of the best 944 tracks in California!

 

EQUAL, LOW COST 944'S.

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While we're waiting.....

Dylan, you're wrong about the rules being "ours". POC is a very localized, non-profit, member-driven club. NASA is a business. We in the class don't make the rules. Many people were asked about the rules changes that were intended to bring the higher HP cars back in line with the average cars. NASA went with what they knew was best for the class.

 

Your right, I actually only meant POC was the "driver's" rules, not NASA.

 

P.D.

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PD you are correct and actually get what I was saying. Lump everyone in Cup as 1 big class. I know it'll never happen but it would be nice for the class.

Wish you all the best and have fun!!

BTW with the times up on MyLaps it looks like Mike spanked everyone again. I wonder if he'll ever get any competition?

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