Ernesto Roco Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Bryan, Please consider running the Club course for the Nationals again this year. I believe we should stick with what works here. I am almost certain that there will be more yellow flags thrown from crashes when and if you run the Pro course this year. It also shows that there is some effort being put into taking away some of the home field advantage from running the Pro course for the local region all this year. Let's try to be fair here. I don't understand why people want to go straight when you go to a road course track especially at a world class facility like Mid Ohio. Thanks for your hard work in making 2006 a success. Let's all look forward to another great year. Regards, Ernesto Roco
Andrie Posted June 19, 2007 Posted June 19, 2007 Ernesto, I do agree that the club course is funner. However, from safety stand point, the pro course is better. I've seen some video from 2006 Nationals where some people went off in the chicane, and go through the grass and cross the field of oncoming cars. Luckilly there were no big incident, but there was a couple close one.
Red Tornado Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 I think the pro course is best after having run last years event. Bummer there is a big home field advantage though.
John Graber Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 I like the Club Course better, but the overall impression is by running the Pro Course you have one more passing area. From a driving perspective, the lines into the keyhole are exactly the same. Go the the Mid Ohio School and ask Tommy Burn or Brian Till and they wil tell you the entrance into the key hole is exactly the same from either spot. What you'll have to learn is the braking point, but that is not terribly difficult. John
D Algozine Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Theres nothing that can be done about the home field advantage. Mid-Ohio is the home track of the OH/IN region. Nothing can change that. The pro course is safer, and provides a much needed safe, under braking, slower speed passing opportunity, which is very useful, especially with mixed class racing.
Renntag Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Bryan, Please consider running the Club course for the Nationals again this year. I don't understand why people want to go straight when you go to a road course track especially at a world class facility like Mid Ohio. I agree with Ernesto fully. Last year was my first time to Mid-Ohio. I loved the chicane into the key hole. I feel the same about watkins glenn, its much better with the bus stop than running straight into the bend. FWIW. I wasnt aware of any safety issues. Bottom line, I am looking forward to nationals regardless of configuration. 2006 was a first class event.
King Matt Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Considering that I was nearly taken out on the FIRST green flag lap of the FIRST practice session on Thursday morning last year by an AI driver trying to stuff me at the entrance to the chicane, I disagree with the contention that the Club course is "safer."
D Algozine Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 Considering that I was nearly taken out on the FIRST green flag lap of the FIRST practice session on Thursday morning last year by an AI driver trying to stuff me at the entrance to the chicane, I disagree with the contention that the Club course is "safer." I can relate. I had an AIX car follow my through turn one and the entire chicane, only to sqeeze under me midway around the keyhole. I quickly went wide mid corner, only to get into the marbles and then across the beach. Another 60 feet and he could have flew by exiting the keyhole. FWIW. I wasnt aware of any safety issues. My point about safety refers to a safe passing zones. Typical passing zones are very limited at MO. Therefore, other higher risk moves are often made to get the pass completed.
Renntag Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 ... I was nearly taken out ...by [a] driver ...at the entrance to the chicane... That same senario could happen at the entry of any turn. The fact that another driver didnt use proper discretion doesnt mean the course is less safe. No offense.
onralz Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 If we don't use the chicane, where will I park the car two laps after the race has started? For those of you who don't get this comment, watch the Nationals DVD. I like both but I have to agree that the chicane is pretty much just a slow down chicane, not particularly challenging so I don't see it as additional corners to enjoy.
King Matt Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 ... I was nearly taken out ...by [a] driver ...at the entrance to the chicane... That same senario could happen at the entry of any turn. The fact that another driver didnt use proper discretion doesnt mean the course is less safe. No offense. The only aspect that we're talking about in regards to "safety" at Mid Ohio is whether the chicane is better than the Pro course. With the Pro course, the entry into the keyhole is clearly a better place to pass, especially for cars with a big speed differential. The chicane is not a good place to pass no matter how much faster you are than another car, yet there are people who seem to think they might be able to pull it off. Therefore, I'd argue that the Pro course is "safer" than the Club course because it does not invite inherently dangerous, low-percentage moves.
kbrew8991 Posted June 20, 2007 Posted June 20, 2007 I'd prefer the Club Course, but I drive a car that trades a bit of power for better handling within its class, so I'm a bit biased there
Ernesto Roco Posted June 20, 2007 Author Posted June 20, 2007 It's looking like I might be stuck with the same motor I had last year so the fewer straights the better off I am. Contrary to popular belief my AIX car is a momentum car But besides my selfish reasons I believe there will be more green flag racing running the club course than the pro course. The chicane also offers a nice little driving challenge to those that appreciate the curves and the finesse it takes to do it perfectly. I believe there definitely is a right and a wrong way through that chicane.
Jeff D Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Actually for most of the OH/IN events (and I say most because I know we've run the pro course, but up until this year I haven't) prior to this year we've run the club course, so any advantage to the locals would more likely be with the club course.
Glenn Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 i gotta say i didnt notice an advantage to the locals last year as for as CMC goes. not one local was in the top 5 and only 1 was in the top 10. there will always be a local who knows the track better than you at any level of racing. part of racing is learning the track and learning it fast.
Pat L. Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 I don't buy the fact that the Pro Course is safer. While the long straight and the braking zone *might* promote better out-of-class passing, it'll definitely cause more incidents with battles for position in class. I didn't have a problem last year with passing out-of-class cars in the straight between T1 and the chicane (In PT or AI)... or even passing cars into and in the chicane. I think running the Pro Course is like putting a cork on our forks so we don't poke ourselves - makes us look less professional. Besides, taking out the chicane turns the course into a series of big, boring straightaways and if I wanted to race in a straight line I'd bring my wrinkle-walls and race on the entrance road.
Micks 41 Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Can someone explain why it's called the "pro" course?
Jeff D Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Can someone explain why it's called the "pro" course? Assuming it's because that's what CART/Champ/Indy use(d) (Pro) vs. what NASA/SCCA (club(s)) use, but there could be a more detailed explaination......
D Algozine Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) I can't see how Mid-Ohio can be refered to as a series of straightaways, either with or with out the chicane. The entire track is one linked turn with elevation change after another. Even w/out the chicane it's still just a one straightaway course. The front stretch is pretty short and so is the straight after turn one, which leaves just the back straight. Lets break it down. Chicanes are typically at the end of long straights to keep speeds down. The straight between turn one and keyhole is not long, and the speed is not wicked fast. With the location and layout of the chicane, you are still on the gas for the entry, with a lift or brake tap to settle the car. All the chicane does is take away a moderately heavy braking zone, and shortens up a short straight even more. The lose of speed for the keyhole becomes gradual, and eliminates a very good passing opportunity. MO has very few text book passing areas. The end of the back straight, which is very fast, and perhaps entering the carousel, if someone leaves the door open. Other than that it's pretty tough to get past someone of equal speed, unless a mistake is made. Add the element of more than one class racing at a time and passing is very limited. Sure passes can be made in other locations, but they are limited and most often high risk. MO has a lot of walls and not a lot of run off. Besides mixing it up (passing) is fun. Are the folks who are promoting the chicane ever run MO without it. Because that track is a blast either way. Edited June 21, 2007 by Guest
Jim Child Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Its called the Pro course, because all of the pro races held there use it. The club course is only used for DE's and some club races. I'm a local and I have much more experience on the club course. This is true of all of the other locals I know. Believe me, if you're worried about home track advantage you don't want to run the club course. For racing I strongly prefer the pro course. If Mid Ohio has a weakness it’s the relative lack of places to make an easy, clean pass under braking. The pro course adds an excellent passing zone, which I find extremely useful in getting around slower class traffic without disrupting intra-class battles.
Micks 41 Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Then by using the Pro Course, we should not be concerned in looking "less professional".
Ernesto Roco Posted June 21, 2007 Author Posted June 21, 2007 I'm not saying I'm worried about the home field advantage but to be more sportsmanlike an effort should be made to run a different layout for the regional vs. the nationals. I prefer the club course but if we are running the pro course that's okay too, I look forward to it and I will make sure I'm prepared either way. We just need to know what layout it will be. The sooner the better.
Micks 41 Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 I believe it has already been decided that we will be using the Pro Course. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.
Pat L. Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 Jim, the last thing us guys/gals from afar are concerned with is home track advantage. I personally feel the Pro Course takes less talent and favors power as opposed to a well setup/prepared car. If we're locked in for the Pro Course no matter what, I'll shuddup now and prepare accordingly - Calling Hoosier for some Quick Time Pro's Just don't expect me to be classy and hold back a "told ya so" when there's an incident entering the Key Hole come Championship Day.
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