ooldguy Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Is it time to start the '08 TT rules discussion ? Robert Dudek NASA Midwest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Don't you have to wait until National so that we know which cars to punish next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac11 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 I vote for yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slink Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 heck yes, i vote for vette's to have smaller tires and more weight added and possible 3 *** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 we'll see at Nationals, but I think all Miatas are one * too high across the board and I think the E30 325i/is needs bumped from TTF** to TTE, those things are quicker than they appear on paper. They'd do well in E considering they'd really get some points back from the tire width credit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyevo Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 heck yes, i vote for vette's to have smaller tires and more weight added and possible 3 *** I'll have a petition to that effect to sign at Mid Ohio next weekend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Don't you have to wait until National so that we know which cars to punish next year? Maybe....but it's not too early to start penalizing the drivers! Argumentative lawyers with BMW's +5 - Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Argumentative lawyers with BMW's OBJECTION!!!! Redundant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACER-X Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 I vote for yours. Objection overruled!! I agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L98Terror Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 heck yes, i vote for vette's to have smaller tires and more weight added and possible 3 *** I'll have a petition to that effect to sign at Mid Ohio next weekend! Why punish "Team America" Maybe it's the drivers not the cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbyevo Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Why punish "Team America" Maybe it's the drivers not the cars IMPOSSIBLE!!! haha!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Make every class power to weight and up class for dot hoosiers, etc.. It is getting very hard to police all the mod points etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted August 13, 2007 National Staff Share Posted August 13, 2007 Lots of dyno time....did you buy a share in Jim's dyno? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piersin Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 When calculating power to wt ratio use HP + Torque divided by 2. You can tune turbo cars to make way more torque than hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACER-X Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 How about giving back points to the cars who are overweight, kinda' like if you run a smaller tire size you get points back. The power to weight thing would probably work too, but then everybody would have to dyno their car. For me that would be hard to do, since there's nobody in the area with a dyno. Plus the added expense. But it sure would weed out the cheaters. I vote to just give the overweight cars some points back, that way everybody can figure it out without the added hassle. 1 point for every 20 LBS. over what is in the TT classification guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebionicman Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I vote to just give the overweight cars some points back, that way everybody can figure it out without the added hassle. 1 point for every 20 LBS. over what is in the TT classification guide. +1 My car is 100 pounds overweight and I have no desire to remove the interior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 ^^Quit complaining. You're lucky we haven't blind-folded you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooldguy Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share Posted August 13, 2007 I would suggest using the existing formula backwards - as we now have a positive points assesment for being under weight, how about a negative assesment for positive weight ? Also, I'd say NASA is missing a bet, to grow the TT series, by not adjusting the " points " to make stock ( un-modified ) cars with street tires ( over 140 ) competitive. Midwestern Council has run a hi-speed AX series for 20 years and their largest #'s are in the stock classes ( 2 - MC points of mod's and 140 + tires ). The only " complaint " that I've heard over the previous 3 seasons is the reluctance to run TT due to cost ( DOT race tires, another set of wheel's and a trailer to start ) TT may have been started with the thought that it's a series for modified cars, but, from persoal experience we could grow the TT series instead of keeping racer's out due to cost. Robert Dudek NASA Midwest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebionicman Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 ^^Quit complaining. You're lucky we haven't blind-folded you. Come on now, there was a Honda Civic in TTC this weekend that took first on Saturday. A great driver in a great setup car. I agree with Robert about trying to have it setup that stock cars can be competive so that costs can be kept down. Though I have no desire to put my car back to stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan in Omaha Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I vote to just give the overweight cars some points back, that way everybody can figure it out without the added hassle. 1 point for every 20 LBS. over what is in the TT classification guide. +1 My car is 100 pounds overweight and I have no desire to remove the interior. I actually asked Greg G. about it earlier and I thought I was the only one who had the points back idea. (Of course, it's not my car that's overweight) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthTT Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I agree that Hoosiers (and similar race only tires) should cost more points. I like most others can't afford $1100 in tires every weekend or two. The difference over the wear-like-iron Toyo RA1 is 5 points. Removing 65lbs is worth 5 points. Relocation of a front suspension mounting point is 6 points. Those aren't even in the same ballpark in my opinion. p.s. I appreciate having a voice in future rules!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACER-X Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I would suggest using the existing formula backwards - as we now have a positive points assesment for being under weight, how about a negative assesment for positive weight ? Also, I'd say NASA is missing a bet, to grow the TT series, by not adjusting the " points " to make stock ( un-modified ) cars with street tires ( over 140 ) competitive. Midwestern Council has run a hi-speed AX series for 20 years and their largest #'s are in the stock classes ( 2 - MC points of mod's and 140 + tires ). The only " complaint " that I've heard over the previous 3 seasons is the reluctance to run TT due to cost ( DOT race tires, another set of wheel's and a trailer to start ) TT may have been started with the thought that it's a series for modified cars, but, from persoal experience we could grow the TT series instead of keeping racer's out due to cost. Robert Dudek NASA Midwest I think that by running the point scale backward would give to many points back. I would stand to gain 10 or more points back, if that were the case. (trying to be fair) I couldn't agree more about getting more TTers. The only other way to look at it would be that NASA hopes that some of the TTers will move up to one of the racing classes to fill up their ranks. The big picture might look like this...... HPDE and TT would take up a full weekend at some track just by themselves, and the racing class would fill up a weekend by themselves. If the later is true, then I'd expect the TT rules to lean more tward a race preped car. From a business point of view, this makes cents $$$ (pun intended) They can efficiently increase their revenue by growing each individual region till they split the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RACER-X Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I vote to just give the overweight cars some points back, that way everybody can figure it out without the added hassle. 1 point for every 20 LBS. over what is in the TT classification guide. +1 My car is 100 pounds overweight and I have no desire to remove the interior. (Of course, it's not my car that's overweight) That's OK, just eat your way to more points. Need that set of big bore shocks with 4 way adjustibility....gain 50 lbs and your there. Hell, I got a head start on all ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan in Omaha Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 I vote to just give the overweight cars some points back, that way everybody can figure it out without the added hassle. 1 point for every 20 LBS. over what is in the TT classification guide. +1 My car is 100 pounds overweight and I have no desire to remove the interior. (Of course, it's not my car that's overweight) That's OK, just eat your way to more points. Need that set of big bore shocks with 4 way adjustibility....gain 50 lbs and your there. Hell, I got a head start on all ya! Mmmmm beer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooldguy Posted August 14, 2007 Author Share Posted August 14, 2007 If removing weight is a specific advantage ( positive points ) then the same degree of being " over weight " would be an equal disadvantage. I don't see how positive weight would be less of a - then negative weight would be a + ? Another point - the tire width spec for each class might be worth a look as , for ex. - a 2000# Elise get's a -16 pts. for the OEM tire size - a 3488# C4 gets a +16 pts. for the OEM tire size I, still, don't get that one. Robert Dudek NASA Midwest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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