Jump to content

Barber- Sat. Race Groups need more time..


Red Tornado

Recommended Posts

Red Tornado

After today and this weekend I am putting in my early request to Jim on the schedule (more like a beg here). Thought others could pile in if you feel the same or give your own thoughts.

 

Many (me either) have never been to this track before and the thought of having a 15 minute practice and qualifying before a 20 minute race for the whole season championship doesn't feel right (that assumes we don't get like a 10 minute practice and qualifying)

 

Idea:

- Give racers majority of time on Saturday and/or cut out many DE groups.

30 minute practice, 20 minute qualifying, 45 minute race

or something along those lines.

 

Other racers feel free to jump in here. I can't imagine I am alone in my thoughts about traveling 8+ hours through and having something like today occur.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 62
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • p144

    5

  • LMan

    4

  • kbrew8991

    3

  • Fred Crawford

    3

WalkerInTN

If that's the case, I'll take a refund & stay home that weekend.

 

My HPDE sessions were already cut short enough this weekend by the people that couldn't keep it on the track in the other groups.

 

If the HPDE groups would get less time, how much would the price drop for those classes?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Lucid Moments

I'm with Walker. HPDE actually pays more for the event than the racers do (not including the transponder) I don't see cutting into our time as being a reasonable solution, and not even a realistic one because I doubt Jim will do anything like that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
If that's the case, I'll take a refund & stay home that weekend.

 

My HPDE sessions were already cut short enough this weekend by the people that couldn't keep it on the track in the other groups.

 

If the HPDE groups would get less time, how much would the price drop for those classes?

 

Ditto for me. Last two events with NASA I had at least one session each day cut due to accidents/offs by other groups. Paying $300 plus for a little over an hour of track time a weekend does not cut it. I am glad NASA is doing well and growing but they need to address the reduced track time for all groups that is the result of this growth. If they don't they may see a reversal in their growth.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You think race times were short, TT had one session on Sat. red and then black flagged before a single lap was completed because of an incident, and the last two sessions on Sun. were combined into one 15 run at the end of the day, and grouped with HPDE 3 & 4. We also had to obey by HPDE 3 rules for passing, POINT BY ONLY. Not alot of BANG for the BUCK.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Fred Crawford

There is no way to pull HPDE folks time away , they pay like us racers. There time is just as important. I guess once NASA gets big enough, racers , solo HPDE, comp school stuff may get there own venue.

 

 

Fc

Nobody no Title

Link to post
Share on other sites
There is no way to pull HPDE folks time away , they pay like us racers. There time is just as important. I guess once NASA gets big enough, racers , solo HPDE, comp school stuff may get there own venue.

 

 

Fc

Nobody no Title

 

+1 Fred

 

mpowers

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Members

We try to strike a balance between Racers and HPDE, and still do our best to provide a safe, quality event at an affordable price. As a racer wanting more track time you can always sign up for HPDE 3 or TimeTrials for additional seat time.

 

Our standard policy is to try to keep on schedule as best as possible and when a group causes a major time delay we do our best to remove that time from the offending group's next session(s).

 

The delays this past weekend were compounded by the track's lack of working maintenance equipment, which we are also addressing with track management.

 

Our plan is to get more dates and split the groups up across events, but we are at that critical stage where we have enough to overflow one event but not enough to pay for two smaller weekends at the track without raising entry fees.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Lucid Moments

The only place I've been where crowding is such an issue is at Road Atlanta. Other venues haven't had nearly the attendace. That seems to me to be the inescapable result of being so close to a major metro area. I'm going to be interested to see if there are similar problems at Barber in October.

Link to post
Share on other sites
robbodleimages

I was thinking on the drive home that ONE race only weekend would be very attractive. However, the only way to make that work is to run it at a track that has a lower attendance rate and get a full attendance from the racers.

 

Living where I live every track is a long haul. Road Atlanta is an 8 hour haul. Barber is 12. Roebling is 6. CMP 5 hours.

 

When our Thunder sessions were being shortened or delayed or otherwise messed up by mishaps in other groups we all said that the groups responsible for the delays should be the one's that lose session time.

 

Well....our guys wrecked and blew and oiled our Sunday race away.

 

I would tend to agree with Jim's point of view that there are too many HPDE'rs and too many RACERS to be combined as they are, but not enough for HPDE only and Race/TT only events.

 

Jim...May make a suggestion??

 

Since the race at Barber is so important and that track so new to everyone as well as being very techinical, would you consider allowing racers to run ONE HPDE/TT session of their choice for practice time without charge?

 

You could load up the morning session with DE/TT sessions and push both qualifying and the race to after lunch. That would give the racers a choice of DE/TT sessions so that one or two do not get overloaded.

 

Just a thought

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Members

As far as the AI/AIX/CMC group goes, I'm probably gonna assign qualifying positions based on the current season point standings (at that time). Therefore, assumming that the race groups will be getting 3 sessions on Saturday (1 being the race), your first 2 sessions can be used for practice since your qualifying position will have already been determined. Hope this helps in providing another viable option...

 

Ed

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was in the TT group and as mentioned before we lost two whole sessions. And since it took almost 2 hours to clean up after the Thunder race, the final session was combined with HPDE. Was I happy? No. Are others unhappy? Sure. But this is racing and stuff happens. I think Jim and the rest of the NASA crew did all they could given the circumstances. Lets just hope it doesnt happen next time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So it's obvious that at this time we're at an awkward size that's too full (sometimes), but not full enough to split. Is there a way (it might cost a little more) to add Fridays to every weekend? Then the schedule could be spread out a little more. Yes, there are people who might not be able to get off work for the Friday and miss a little bit, but everyone was missing a little bit this weekend.

 

HPDE is important to add members who have never raced. Lots of track time is what brings racers from that 'other' club. IMO, any time you enter a transitional period it becomes a little uncomfortable. If we can all be patient and flexible, then the numbers will continue to rise and we can eventually have split weekends.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It would have also helped if there were only two race groups instead of three. Another suggestion would be to have three day weekends the norm. Fri/Sat would be DE groups and practice sessions for racers and Sunday could be racers only with qualifying in the morning and two sprints in the afternoon. This is how many PCA clubrace weekends are held that don't have enduros and they run very smooth. Bump the entry fee up 100-150 bucks and roll with it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
wildbill846

I think the original intent was to suggest giving racers more time on Saturday, but HPDE more time on Sunday since this was the last event of the year and the last points race takes place Saturday with the year end party. I can't read minds, but I think that's what he was getting at...not stealing more time from the HDPE'rs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
After today and this weekend I am putting in my early request to Jim on the schedule (more like a beg here). Thought others could pile in if you feel the same or give your own thoughts.

 

Many (me either) have never been to this track before and the thought of having a 15 minute practice and qualifying before a 20 minute race for the whole season championship doesn't feel right (that assumes we don't get like a 10 minute practice and qualifying)

 

Idea:

- Give racers majority of time on Saturday and/or cut out many DE groups.

30 minute practice, 20 minute qualifying, 45 minute race

or something along those lines.

 

Other racers feel free to jump in here. I can't imagine I am alone in my thoughts about traveling 8+ hours through and having something like today occur.

 

I agree with zo6 silver bull shooter, we, as a HPDE group should give up at least one session before lunch and a session after lunch to these "racers" so they will have a good experence if they have to drive 8 hours to a track. Never mind we drive 10-11 hours to get to Road Atlanta or 7 hours to Barber, lets BUFFER the schedule for the RACERS.

It has been my observation the RACERS caused the oil downs and delays, and it may be time for some of the RACERS to step up to Nascar and not have to endure the HPDE groups.

And since everyone is giving Pantas suggestions, Just do away with the instructors in HPDE 1and HPDE 2 and put out a Rabbit chase car for those groups. There is several groups that use the no instructors in the beginner group. If you did away with the instructors, there would be at least 60 -70 RACERS that won't be there if they have to pay their own way so this seems a win-win deal for everybody!!

Edited by Guest
Link to post
Share on other sites
Fred Crawford
After today and this weekend I am putting in my early request to Jim on the schedule (more like a beg here). Thought others could pile in if you feel the same or give your own thoughts.

 

Many (me either) have never been to this track before and the thought of having a 15 minute practice and qualifying before a 20 minute race for the whole season championship doesn't feel right (that assumes we don't get like a 10 minute practice and qualifying)

 

Idea:

- Give racers majority of time on Saturday and/or cut out many DE groups.

30 minute practice, 20 minute qualifying, 45 minute race

or something along those lines.

 

Other racers feel free to jump in here. I can't imagine I am alone in my thoughts about traveling 8+ hours through and having something like today occur.

 

I agree with zo6 silver bull shooter, we, as a HPDE group should give up at least one session before lunch and a session after lunch to these "racers" so they will have a good experence if they have to drive 8 hours to a track. Never mind we drive 10-11 hours to get to Road Atlanta or 7 hours to Barber, lets BUFFER the schedule for the RACERS.

It has been my observation the RACERS caused the oil downs and delays, and it may be time for some of the RACERS to step up to Nascar and not have to endure the HPDE groups.

And since everyone is giving Pantas suggestions, Just do away with the instructors in HPDE 1and HPDE 2 and put out a Rabbit chase car for those groups. There is several groups that use the no instructors in the beginner group. If you did away with the instructors, there would be at least 60 -70 RACERS that won't be there if they have to pay their own way so this seems a wiw-win deal for everybody!!

 

Even I, " the king of Bull " know how when to draw the line on commentary such as this.

 

Fc

Class Act

Link to post
Share on other sites
After today and this weekend I am putting in my early request to Jim on the schedule (more like a beg here). Thought others could pile in if you feel the same or give your own thoughts.

 

Many (me either) have never been to this track before and the thought of having a 15 minute practice and qualifying before a 20 minute race for the whole season championship doesn't feel right (that assumes we don't get like a 10 minute practice and qualifying)

 

Idea:

- Give racers majority of time on Saturday and/or cut out many DE groups.

30 minute practice, 20 minute qualifying, 45 minute race

or something along those lines.

 

Other racers feel free to jump in here. I can't imagine I am alone in my thoughts about traveling 8+ hours through and having something like today occur.

 

Expecting the HPDE groups to give up time in an already packed weekend so that racers get more practice time and buffers from problems is arrogance bordering on insanity in my opinion.

 

As already stated, HPDE groups very rarely cause problems that result in track time loss. We racers are the ones that do that. Almost invariably.

 

Do I think there are other solutions? Yes, I think three day weekends are a good idea.

 

I think splitting race and hpde over different weekends would be great as well.

 

Right now I feel the race schedule has too many events as it is. When you think about other org's schedules the amount of events it is possible to go to goes up alot. I'd rather see a smaller calendar, same amount of weekends but half DE and half racing or some other ratio.

 

I was disappointed in the amount of track time this weekend as well. Do I realize that this is racing and that these things happen? Yeah.

 

The challenge now is to come up with solutions that work for everyone.

 

Jason

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Even I, " the king of Bull " know how when to draw the line on commentary such as this.

 

Fc

Class Act

 

I don't know; I can see where both parties are coming from but I think that the option of cutting the "innocent" DE groups' track time to increase the track time available to the "guilty" race groups is not an intelligent option.

Both TT and race groups caused the incidents this weekend and therefore both TT and race groups should have their times reduced. The shorting of both DE1 and DE2 sessions was unfair in my view. They did what they were supposed to do and yet still were punished.

 

If it had been a DE car that oiled down 200 feet of track and required such an extensive cleanup, would you have so cheerfully given up as much race time? I doubt it. I agree with olepokey that the racers get significant benefits for the cost and if they have to share it with us dumb old DE students who just can't seem to keep from crashing our cars and ruining everyone's day, then thats just part of the package.

 

And lets not forget that there were people who stood in the sun in 100* heat with 140* grid temperatures for 8 hours a day for two or three days so make this event safe and fun both for the racers, Time Trialers, and even the dumb ole DE students. and in return I got 3 laps in an RV at lunch. and I wouldn't have missed it for anything.

 

so lets have a little perspective, shall we guys?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Come on. This is "club racing". Racer groups, TT, and HPDE. Everyone will mess up at some point. All this finger pointing and whining is ridiculous! I understand that the officials try to put the weight of the time penalty on the group that had the offense, but even with that, not everyone in the group screwed up. It's never completely "fair". Sometimes others have to pay the price for a mistake, in and out of the offenders group. That's all there is to it. Crying about it and trying to point fingers at the racers is stupid. This is a "group" event! IF you want unhampered track time all the time, go pay $3,000-$4,000 per weekend with Panoz.

 

And by the way, so there's no mistake, I'm a DE'er.

Link to post
Share on other sites
wildbill846

Since the posts following my last didn't seem to pick up on it....the idea is that everyone still gets equal time, just heavier on one day than the other, since the racers won't be doing much on sunday at Barber.

Link to post
Share on other sites
HPDE actually pays more for the event than the racers do (not including the transponder)

 

Just to put it out there, racers do pay a little less, but compare the 80 minutes of scheduled track time for DE/TT to the racers 50 minutes, and you quickly see why. That's something I never noticed before making the jump.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Members

I thought the picture was going to show me towing in the black corvette!

 

On a lighter note, I think that Bob Mayer has broken every (different) part of that black corvette in turns 10a/10b!

Link to post
Share on other sites
I thought the picture was going to show me towing in the black corvette!

 

On a lighter note, I think that Bob Mayer has broken every (different) part of that black corvette in turns 10a/10b!

 

Yes! I recall seeing his windshield flipping four stories high as I can down the back straight. And yet some how it did not break.

 

mpowers

let's have a 2hr dusk enduro

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...