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Chuck T.

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chris_venturini

im using both the turbo radiator and water pump. the turbo one has 2 more rows so its slightly taller, youll have to modify the radiator mount to make it fit, the hose attachments are slightly larger but no big deal.

 

the turbo water pump is the same but has an extra "hole" to cool the turbo with that youll have to block off if you get it.

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JSilverman

Are you having cooling probelms with the NA radiator? Our here in the east it gets brutal in the summer. 90-95 with 70-80% humidity. My car has a new radiator, and I run distilled water with water wetter and the temps are not out of control. The fans come on a little more often, but other than that the car doesnt run hot at all.

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Sterling Doc
is a turbo radiator better than a NA radiator ?

 

 

is there an after market radiator thats cool ?

 

thanks for the info !

 

Most of the west coast guys & Az guys seem to do fine with a stock radiator, and a a good oil cooler (this is key). Just make sure your radiator is in good conidtion, and get all the 20 years of crap out of it. I took mine out and tapped it on the ground face down before spraying it from behind to "reverse flush" the fins - got A LOT of crap out. My water temps stay below the second line, and my oil temps never get about 220 degrees, even with extended racing in 90 degree heat.

 

The turbo water pump is a standard replacement for all 944's, I'm not even sure you can get the old one anymore. The ones for a non-tubo just have their ports for the turbo line blocked off.

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Tim Comeau

The turbo radiator is slightly taller AND thicker. If you have to modify the radiator mounting shelf to install it, it's illegal. See the rules.

If you just have a fresh NA radiator, I promise you'll do fine. I use distilled water so there's no deposits internally, and a bottle of water wetter. Know how many issues I've had with heat in the SoCal deserts? NONE. (and remember, I'm a member of the "944 Desert Rats - Over 107F Club.")

BTW, make sure both your fans are working, fan switch and thermostat are working. too. And nothing silly in front of the radiator opening.

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I heard of racers using the "universal" sandwich type oil cooler and the tubo oil coolers. Is one better than the other?

 

I'm thinking you are referring to the oil port adapter which goes between the oil filter and the oil filter mounting face versus a Porsche 944 turbo oil filter adapter which would replace the na adapter?

 

The turbo unit eliminates the oil/water heat exchanger and so sends the oil directly to an external cooler (using a thermostat). My opinion is that this is operationally superior when you are primarily interested in cooling (as in racing) and not in quick warm up and stable oil temp (as in street driving).

 

However, I wouldn't lose any sleep over the sandwich adapter on the stock na heat exchanger. The last turbo unit I saw on evilbay went for around $350 which is just silly. Admitedly, I was watching an would have picked it up for $50.

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Sterling Doc
I heard of racers using the "universal" sandwich type oil cooler and the tubo oil coolers. Is one better than the other?

 

I use a sandwich plate, and external 19 row oil cooler with aeoquip fittings. It gives me a lot of capacity, being significantly larger than the tubo unit. As I mentioned above, my oil temps stay in the 210-220 range while racing, even in the heat. I'm very happy with that set up. Doug at VFC set this up for me. If you have questions about specifics, contact him: http://www.vfc-engineering.com. Keeping oil temps down is harder and a bigger deal on our cars than water temps (a well set up stock radiator works well).

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The turbo radiator is slightly taller AND thicker. If you have to modify the radiator mounting shelf to install it, it's illegal. See the rules.

 

How much modification are we talking about, and is there any way around it that would comply with the rules? I bought a turbo radiator thinking it was a simple drop-in replacement, but haven't tried to install it yet. My current radiator is giving me serious cooling problems, and I doubt it can be restored to decent performance. The turbo radiator cost me $31 on eBay, which is cheaper than I could find an NA one for. And speaking of costs, I thought the intent of the rules were to limit costs and favor improvements in reliability... I could spend quite a bit of money on a high-performance aftermarket radiator that would fit in the stock mounts and be legal, or I could spend $31 on a turbo radiator that doesn't perform anywhere near as well but still keeps my engine alive. I only want reliability and low costs...

 

 

If you just have a fresh NA radiator, I promise you'll do fine. I use distilled water so there's no deposits internally, and a bottle of water wetter. Know how many issues I've had with heat in the SoCal deserts? NONE. (and remember, I'm a member of the "944 Desert Rats - Over 107F Club.")

BTW, make sure both your fans are working, fan switch and thermostat are working. too. And nothing silly in front of the radiator opening.

 

I'm sure a good fresh NA radiator could suffice, but several of us high elevation guys are running hot enough to make us look into better cooling. Our altitude doesn't have the air density that the SoCal desert has, so our radiators (and everything else) take a hit in cooling efficiency... it's harder to cool things with thin dry air.

 

110F at sea level is an air density of 0.0693 lb/ft3

 

We don't usually see 110F here, but we do see 100F and 4700ft elevation at Pueblo...

100F at 4700ft is a density of 0.0594 lb/ft3

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Tim Comeau

Well, I got a 944 turbo engine on ebay for $75 dollars, which is much cheaper than my stock rebuild. I still can't use it in spec. See my point?

I know how to make the turbo radiator fit, but I don't run it in spec because you have to mod the radiator shelf.

I'm not trying to be a hardass, here. I'd get a stock, new radiator and resell the turbo one for more money than you bought it.

Are you guys retaining the altitude sensor?

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Well, I got a 944 turbo engine on ebay for $75 dollars, which is much cheaper than my stock rebuild. I still can't use it in spec. See my point?

I know how to make the turbo radiator fit, but I don't run it in spec because you have to mod the radiator shelf.

I'm not trying to be a hardass, here. I'd get a stock, new radiator and resell the turbo one for more money than you bought it.

Are you guys retaining the altitude sensor?

 

I understand your point, and I don't mean to imply that anyone is being a hardass about the rules. I'm just questioning if a turbo radiator is really against the intent of the rules, or the spirit of the class, when we can already legally use a far more expensive and much better performing aftermarket radiator. It would seem to me that there's no real reason to outlaw it, but I'm open to hearing other opinions/interpretations. Maybe there's another way to get it to fit, without modifying the car, anyway...

 

Yes, as far as I know, everyone still has their altitude sensor.

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thanks for the info on oil coolers. Couldn't get the VFC link to work though. I'm pulling the engine for other problems and thought I would work on the oil cooler issue while it was out since I might have a leak in the oil cooler o rings.

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944-Spec#94

The stock radiator works well if you do few things along the way.

 

1) NEW radiator. Old ones are mostly full of junk and are not very efficient.

 

2) fresh water pump. Turbo pump is the only new pump you can buy. either one works, but and old crusty one may not work as well.

 

3) 100% water and a bottle of water wetter. Water is the best fluid to use for cooling as transfers the heat the best. Water wetter is mostly good for adding a bit of lubrication to the waterpump.

 

 

4) Low temp thermostate. This opens sooner. It does not increase capacity but does help start the cooling process faster

 

5) fans later model 5 blade fans are superior to the early 3 blade ones. Even so direct wiring these allows you to control them much better than the stock system so you can flip them on went you need them. Plust direct 12 volts may "over drive" them a bit too. I have done this for many many years and motors can take it.

 

6) full 951 oil cooler. an external oil cooler is great, but removing the stock water bath oil cooler has a LARGE impact on water temps. the reason is clear as you are no longer asking the water to cool the oil as well as the engine. My water temps are down probably 20-30 degress just from this on an already well operating system.

 

7) use the stock metal or plastic undertray under the nose. This helps improve airflow through the radiator. Plus you get better areo at speed too.

 

8. makes sure the A/C condenser is gone.

 

9) No leaks in the cooling system. Leaks are bad so make sure you hoses are good.

 

10) remove the front bar on the spoiler. see below.

 

This mod is designed for the 944's spoiler and dates back to the May of 2002. On track evidence supported the effect that removing the bar between the fog lights in 944 would improve cooling and allow an overheating car to compete with temps in the upper 90's and lower 100's.

 

Here is what I mean.

Before

April-02_2b.jpg

After

ASRA05.JPG

 

This is the only area that may be cut out.

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  • 3 years later...
pacemaker

Is there a difference between an "OE aftermarket" radiator and a "OE replacement" radiator? I would imagine some of the high end copper core replacement radiators might not be spec legal, but there are some (eg: Behr) aluminum core radiators that are $100 cheaper than the OE aftermarket units.

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I must be missing something, Weston. I just went to the rules, as was suggested, and see NO issue with installing your turbo radiator in your car. You CAN modify the lower mounting to accommodate the taller turbo radiator, the rules say so. You do NOT need to modify the turbo radiator to install it within the rules as was suggested as being the only way to legally be able to install it.

 

I have one in the Red 12 car. The only thing that needs to be done is to lower the bottom cross piece by about 1 inch and the drop piece from the turbo cars bolts right in. I made my own, however, because I did not want to wait to find one. If you need more detailed information on how to do that, just pm, e-mail or call me and I will be happy to help you.

 

Really, Weston, I do not understand the comments made on this thread. The rules are very clear and you have no problem installing your turbo radiator, nor should you. The reason for the rule change was to do exactly what you need to do, improve your cooling to enhance reliability and to be able to do it at a minimal cost.

 

Big Dog

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Jim - this thread started in 2007 before the rule change to allow Turbo radiators. Hence Westons comments were valid at the time they were made.

 

We since allowed the radiator change

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Do the behr radiators work well or is there a better brand that people like? I saw the Behr on partstrain or whatever for $180 vs $300 for other brands like Silla. Any thoughts?

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I've got a lower cost new radiator, and I'll say that anything that isn't 25 years old is going to work better regardless. The old radiator was full of deposits and gunk impeding flow.

 

Now my car stays nice and cool even in the texas heat.

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