Spectator Racing Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Why are the classes divided as such? Shouldn't the dividing line split the field into similar sized classes? Seems odd that C would be with the faster classes and not B. Looking at recent lap times B is faster than C by about 5 seconds, yet the split between A and B is less than 2. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Why are the classes divided as such? Shouldn't the dividing line split the field into similar sized classes? Seems odd that C would be with the faster classes and not B. Looking at recent lap times B is faster than C by about 5 seconds, yet the split between A and B is less than 2. What gives? To give the A cars plenty of options to pass? It must be something to do with class sizes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Something about the national director wanting to run with the big boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 it increases the number of ways people can participate in 2 TT classes as I understood the breakdown last year. It was also done that way in 2006 and worked out surprizingly well.... TTD (slow) can supersize to TTC (fast) TTC (fast) can supersize to TTB or TTD (slow) TTB (slow) can supersize to TTC or TTA (fast) TTA (fast) can supersize to TTB (slow) "slow" and "fast" refer to the general speeds of the respective TT groups, not any particular class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudes13 Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 are you calling me slow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 we'll find out in a few weeks I'd imagine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectator Racing Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share Posted August 29, 2007 TTA (fast) can supersize to TTB (slow) Not sure I understand how a faster car can supersize and run with a slower group. If my car's not legal how can I run it in TTB? It just means we get fewer laps before catching up to lap traffic, which I would think the division was intended to alleviate. I'd hate to think that this was an abuse of authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slink Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 i am sure ken meant that if you wanted to remove points to go down a group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 i am sure ken meant that if you wanted to remove points to go down a group precisely the laptime difference on the Club Course was mild enough that those few seconds difference meant about another 1/8th of a clean lap for the TTU/R guys.... not enough to really matter as I recall... and since it was the TTU and TTR guys that kept wadding up cars and/or blowing up, killing the track time for those guys... hopefully its better this year for the guys in the "fast" group. If it were me, I wouldn't bet on it and I'd want to run in the "slow" group if I was on the bubble. Besides, its easier to manage traffic ahead of you and control the pass to get clean track than it is to try and manage traffic behind you to get clean laps... believe me... as a TTF car around GT3 Cup Cars, etc, I'd much rather control the pass than deal with some impatient numbnutz forcing me offline on the lap where my tires and brakes peak when he's already had his good lap and is just out there messing around for the rest of the session with his buddies realize I'm just a competitor like the rest of you on this level, I'm just a regional director. but I don't think Greg put C where it is to help himself, but rather open up more options for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebionicman Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Since we are not running the club course I would think it would be better if C wasn't run with the top runners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted August 29, 2007 National Staff Share Posted August 29, 2007 TTA (fast) can supersize to TTB (slow) I'd hate to think that this was an abuse of authority. Good, then keep comments like that to yourself. Ken did a good job of explaining the reasoning. As well, if you take a look at the results from '06, the winning TTC times BEAT the winning TTB times. I don't expect that to happen again this year, but this grouping will allow some drivers to run in more than one class. As well, the larger TTB group helps to do exactly what you said at first, even out the group sizes. And, it helps to decrease passing and unintentional obstructing when the adjacent classes are split apart when possible. (ie. get cars running 2-3 seconds apart on the track together, instead of cars running nearly identical times). However, if we put TTR or TTS (or even TTA), in with the group with TTF cars, the higher level groups would lose open laps by catching the back markers quickly. If TTC was in with D,E,F then first, the group would be much smaller than the other group. Second, the only cars that could run in two classes would be TTC and TTB (hey, my potential classes--doesn't effect me either way), which would prevent some of the guys currently registered for more than one class. Third, it worked out perfectly last year, except that the TTC guys lost track time as Ken stated because there were more guys in that group causing yellow flags. Another FYI, there were TTA and TTU cars last year that were slowing down some of the TTC cars, requiring them to pass on the first few laps (they would have a few fast laps that put them up higher on the grid, but they could not reproduce them, and slowed down the cars behind them). I personally would have been better off at the front of the slower run group, than near the back of the faster run group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillB Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Greg, thanks for looking out for what's best for the whole group. I know it would be better for you to have clean track rather than being in the middle of a pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectator Racing Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 Good, then keep comments like that to yourself. Are you serious? This is an open discussion forum and it was a legitimate concern. It's not like I made a comment about someone's mother. This is a relevant topic to all TT'ers, not just me. Besides, it was someone else that alluded to it, I hadn't even noticed that "someone" was running two cars. Once it was brought to my attention it did seem a little odd. As well, if you take a look at the results from '06, the winning TTC times BEAT the winning TTB times. That makes sense, but I looked at what I thought to be the more relevant times from THIS year, which shows the opposite. B is much faster than C because of the Pro course and different cars / competitors. As well, the larger TTB group helps to do exactly what you said at first, even out the group sizes. That's the only explanation that was necessary, why didn't you say that 10 posts ago? Then nobody would have had to wonder. Another FYI, there were TTA and TTU cars last year that were slowing down some of the TTC cars, requiring them to pass on the first few laps Sure, that's always going to happen. But you have to look at the rule rather than the exception. I slow down some of the TTA guys, so I grid behind them. But I think A and S are the closest class with a lot of intermixing. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to answer the question. You guys do a great job, you don't need to bring a confronational attitude onto the Forums if it feels like you're being attacked. This seems to be a common theme with some of the NASA officers...whether it's warranted or not, you need to be able to take criticism and be shining examples for the rest of us lowlifes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 spectator, your post did come across as fairly confrontational... not that it justifies Greg's sarcasm either though we all screw up online, just read the rules discussion thread where I make an ass of myself but alot of it comes down to being much more careful with your words since tone is up in the air, being just text on a page and all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I think we all do need a reality check of how hard Greg and some of the others folks work (I don't know how they ever have time to do anything else). Greg does a great job of always doing the right thing and trying to make it the best for all of us. I also appreciate the fact that he is fun to pick on but that's a side benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 I think we all do need a reality check of how hard Greg and some of the others folks work (I don't know how they ever have time to do anything else). Greg does a great job of always doing the right thing and trying to make it the best for all of us. I also appreciate the fact that he is fun to pick on but that's a side benefit. I have had quite a few emails with Greg over rules - he does his best to do the right thing - and picking on him is a decent perk also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted August 31, 2007 National Staff Share Posted August 31, 2007 Whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Graber Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Hey....uh Greg.....when do you leave for that long trip across the Country where you won't have internet access? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted August 31, 2007 National Staff Share Posted August 31, 2007 Can you say "Internet card" big boy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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