Pat L. Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Guys, there were a couple controversial things that came up during the week regarding my car. The first was the fact that my OBDII port was not sealed during the first two days of competition, that issue was solved which resulted in my forfeiture of Thursday and Friday's times. The second issue was one of compliance to the weight:power ratio which was noted by fellow competitors in both the Time Trial and Super Touring classes; one ST competitor filed a protest. After Greg and Joe (ST race director) reviewed the GPS data Saturday night, they determined my car was accelerating faster than my claimed power. The result was to continue with the ST race as scheduled and then to seal the car for dyno later that evening. I was very confident my car would pass the compliance test on the dyno since we had dyno tested the car on a similar dyno just two weeks before. On Sunday the ST protest was officially removed and there was no need continue with the dyno plan, however, Greg and I were of the opinion that a dyno was in the best interests of my competitors and NASA. This morning we drove to the dyno and my car failed to meet the weight:power requirement for TTS/ST2... So I feel an appology is owed to my competitors in TTS and ST2. I want those guys to know that up until the car spun the rollers this morning I was 110% sure it was in compliance (otherwise, I think I would have been a little less determined to make the tow out of my way, cancel my plane tickets and ultimately let a championship slip through my fingers). I also want you all to know that I took extra precautions to ensure that the dyno reading was above board today, but unfortunately the numbers didn't fall in my favor. Officially, my times in Saturday's second session are DQ'd, meaning Mr. Moser is your TTS Champ! Congrats to him and the others on the podium. In regards to ST2, since the protest was removed and I wasn't required to dyno, I will DQ myself. That means Tony Buffomonte is the 2007 ST2 Champ, congrats to him, he drove terrific all week. Also, Robb Holland in the K-Pax SRT4 is the runner up, it was great having him and the 3R/K-Pax crew there - what a way to spice up Nationals. Also, I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to meet or hang out with many of you, I was tied up all week with my main focus, my American Iron car which chunked multiple engines and didn't make the race - on the bright side we found the issue before more GM hardware was turned to scrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrc24x Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Thanks for the update Pat. I know this was a tough situation but I think you made the right decision having your car dyno'd. Cheers, Matt C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted September 18, 2007 Members Share Posted September 18, 2007 Wow Pat. Way to man up and do the right thing. My heart tells me you did something that quite a few others would not have. Way to step up man. For your AI experience, sounds like you had my whole season in one weekend! (Minus the rollover, destroyed car and $9K hospital bill) Your a true champ in my book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQuicksilver Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Way to be up front about things. Mind if I ask what the dyno numbers were? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Pat, I know all the NorCal TTers were pullin for you at the Nat's . Sorry to here about the DQ , Your a great competitor . I was watching the Iron cars at Sears this year up in turn 2 when you lost a Chevy engine , sounds like their not all their made out to be in reliability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L98Terror Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Way to be up front about things. Mind if I ask what the dyno numbers were? Are we talking a couple hp here or was it not even close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slink Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 it takes big balls to step up like you did pat . sorry about the problems, but you did do the right thing i am sure you did not drive all the way from cali to ohio just to get D.Q. but i am sure you now have gotten more respect from fellow racer's this way we will see you there next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesseWhite Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I agree with the everybody else here... Way to step up and report what happened. Look forward to seeing you again next year, and I know that Audi will be scary fast as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1LapSRT Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I agree with the everybody else here... Way to step up and report what happened. Look forward to seeing you again next year, and I know that Audi will be scary fast as usual. But what class will it be in? And what times did it run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemming Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 there are honest people in this world!!!!! good going!!!! i hear your about the only guy running a griggs sla with an irs. would like some tips if you ever have the time. i'm sure you know we're all wondering what the reason was for the hp increase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectator Racing Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Come on, guys. Apparently I'm the only one who doesn't see Pat as the victim here. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming that there was nothing intentional happening, but still, if the car's illegal then it's illegal. How is agreeing to get a dyno such a big manly thing to do? Did any of the rest of the competitors who were dyno'd get props for being good sports and putting their cars up there? Absolutely not, they had no choice. Pat, thanks for telling the story and for being fair to both TTS and ST2. That was an impressive show of sportsmanship, especially since the ST2 protest was withdrawn. But I'm sorry, you're not a hero because you agreed to do something about which the rest of had no choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosm3os Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Come on, guys. Apparently I'm the only one who doesn't see Pat as the victim here. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming that there was nothing intentional happening, but still, if the car's illegal then it's illegal. How is agreeing to get a dyno such a big manly thing to do? Did any of the rest of the competitors who were dyno'd get props for being good sports and putting their cars up there? Absolutely not, they had no choice. Pat, thanks for telling the story and for being fair to both TTS and ST2. That was an impressive show of sportsmanship, especially since the ST2 protest was withdrawn. But I'm sorry, you're not a hero because you agreed to do something about which the rest of had no choice. Wow, who peed in your cherios this morning? No one thinks he's a victim. We are all applauding exactly what you said--"an impressive show of sportsmanship." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philstireservice Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I knew when I met Patrick at last years Nationals, this was the kind of racer that we need in NASA. Excellent call !!! Congratulations to Jeff Moser......TTS National Champ Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat L. Posted September 18, 2007 Author Share Posted September 18, 2007 Come on, guys. Apparently I'm the only one who doesn't see Pat as the victim here. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt and assuming that there was nothing intentional happening, but still, if the car's illegal then it's illegal. How is agreeing to get a dyno such a big manly thing to do? Did any of the rest of the competitors who were dyno'd get props for being good sports and putting their cars up there? Absolutely not, they had no choice. Pat, thanks for telling the story and for being fair to both TTS and ST2. That was an impressive show of sportsmanship, especially since the ST2 protest was withdrawn. But I'm sorry, you're not a hero because you agreed to do something about which the rest of had no choice. You're right, I'm not a victim, far from it. I just don't want to be labeled a cheater since I have never cheated in any NASA class in my years of competition. That's what I wanted to say before everyone saw the raw results. And also know that the system, while not perfect, worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQuicksilver Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 So what did it dyno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L98Terror Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Maybe the ST2 guy withdrew his protest but I believe that 5 TTS guys protested as well and I know for a fact those weren't withdrawn. So making it sound like he did something honorable is BS, he got caught playing outside the rules pure and simple. What would it have looked like if he got DQed in TTS and didn't DQ himself for ST2 knowing he wasn't within the rules(and everyone else knowing as well). Then not only would he have been a cheat but an A-hole as well. He would lose all respect and it would discredit everything that he has done in the past. Rules are rules and I'm sure that some things get by but the most basic rule is that 8.7:1 Rule. With that said if he dynoed 5 hp over I'd feel bad for Pat and say he was at the edge of the rules and got screwed (fairly, rules are rules and if you want to play it that close that could be the result), but if he was like 40 hp over than there is no excuse. I guess the big question is what did Pat Dyno at? Since he hasn't told us I'm pretty sure we all know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectator Racing Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Regardless if this is intentional cheating or unfortunate circumstance, the worst part of this whole debacle is the loss of any HPDE guys that are reading the TT or ST2 forums and decide not to bother moving up into the fray. If someone out there had designs to give competition a shot next season, and sees that people cheat, what are the chances they're coming back? If I have a 15 year old Miata and get the impression that I'm going to be competing against not only guys with bigger budgets, but also guys who cheat, I'm going to walk away with my bank account and my integrity still intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1LapSRT Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I guess the big question is what did Pat Dyno at? Since he hasn't told us I'm pretty sure we all know the answer. I just looked over the entrant list that I printed off the NASA site last week. It has Pat in TTU, why would that have changed since he said he was 110% sure his car was "TTS legal" until he went to the dyno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L98Terror Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I guess the big question is what did Pat Dyno at? Since he hasn't told us I'm pretty sure we all know the answer. I just looked over the entrant list that I printed off the NASA site last week. It has Pat in TTU, why would that have changed since he said he was 110% sure his car was "TTS legal" until he went to the dyno? JMO, if you are going to get so close to that 8.7 that you might go over then I'd pay for my own Dyno before you start the event. Hell I came in at 9.3:1 and I was nervous, once I put down a good lap I was like please dyno me if you are going to, I want to know as soon as possible. Pat was offered a free dyno by pure tuning on Friday and refused. He could have had the whole thing settled then made the changes and still be able to compete. Also if you are going to dyno all the top cars but not the AWD ones then they need to be in a class with no rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillB Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Regardless if this is intentional cheating or unfortunate circumstance, the worst part of this whole debacle is the loss of any HPDE guys that are reading the TT or ST2 forums and decide not to bother moving up into the fray. If someone out there had designs to give competition a shot next season, and sees that people cheat, what are the chances they're coming back? If I have a 15 year old Miata and get the impression that I'm going to be competing against not only guys with bigger budgets, but also guys who cheat, I'm going to walk away with my bank account and my integrity still intact. The biggest thing I would take from this if I was thinking of moving up is the car was over the power to weight limit and the GPS monitor caught it. I think that says to anyone looking to come in that the rules are important and cars are monitored with both dyno and GPS to ensure that the rules are followed. Well that and it might be better to leave a little room for the conditions. The cold weather probably pushed a lot of cars closer to the power to weight ratio than they expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damián Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 Pat, I applaud the post, disclosing the information you found after the race. That was a classy thing to do. See you next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FocusTed Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 (edited) Good job Pat. Very Classy move. I've always respected you in the past. I kind of shock to hear this. Edited September 19, 2007 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Vette Posted September 18, 2007 Share Posted September 18, 2007 I guess the big question is what did Pat Dyno at? Since he hasn't told us I'm pretty sure we all know the answer. I just looked over the entrant list that I printed off the NASA site last week. It has Pat in TTU, why would that have changed since he said he was 110% sure his car was "TTS legal" until he went to the dyno? Because Danny wasn't registerd untill very late for TTU. My guess based on observed power is on his race tune (remember the Audi can hide 5 tunes in the turn signal stalk) he was about 6.5 or 6.8 he knew he couldn't beat Danny so he went down. He can say whatever he wants, the refusal to seal the port, the refusal to dyno untill everyone was making a stink about it tells me without a doubt he was cheating. But what the hell lots of people cheat,(look at NASCAR) he just cheated too much, and got caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted September 19, 2007 Members Share Posted September 19, 2007 Bitter much? Did he in fact "refuse" to seal the OBD port? And he absolutely refused to dyno the car until after the event? Was there and AWD dyno at the track this year? and when the protest was withdrawn he was not obligated to dyno the car but he did anyways? Then after the dyno, he was not obligated to tell anyone the results. But he did and hes a cheater for it? And somehow im the liberal? If that aint liberal minded thinking, I dont know what is brutha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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