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Jim P.

NASA-SE:Great Pumpkin Run, Barber Motorsports Pk, Oct 13-14

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jeffburch
It is fixed, there will be one(1) Lightning, Thunder and possibly Blitz race on Saturday. We will then have a "IFU" style race on sunday as a 60 min mini-enduro with everyone racing at the same time.

 

http://www.NASA-Southeast.com/schedule.jsp

 

FYI - the entrant list is up!

 

Mmm. I have to rethink this trip.

How much track time each day for Thunder?

Thx,

jb

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Jim P.

For each race group (Thunder, Lightning) Saturday will be:

 

20 mins Practice

15 mins Qualifying

40 min race

 

Sunday will be (both groups combined)

60 min "fun" race (winner gets to claim they had the most fun!)

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mpowers

After coming in fourth last year I plan to claim that this year.

 

Missed the damn grassroots mag article by one spot! And to top it off he was right in front of me at the finish little did I know.

 

mpowers

drive faster

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Adam Ginsberg

Will there be a qual or practice on Sunday? What time is the enduro scheduled for...just prior to lunch, or just afterwards? IMO, the earlier the enduro is, the better.

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Jim P.
Will there be a qual or practice on Sunday? What time is the enduro scheduled for...just prior to lunch, or just afterwards? IMO, the earlier the enduro is, the better.

We have mandatory quiet hours from 11a-12n on Sunday, we'll probably schedule the race after one session after the quiet hours (ie. give the loud racecars 20 mins to get to grid after lunch... )

 

ie. The race will probably be from 12:20p to 1:20p

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tonycook

Several questions:

Will there be a mandatory pit stop?

If so, will there be a minimum time?

What are the safety requirements for refueling?

 

Thanks,

Tony

heavy thirsty car

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dsullinger
Several questions:

Will there be a mandatory pit stop?

If so, will there be a minimum time?

What are the safety requirements for refueling?

 

Thanks,

Tony

heavy thirsty car

 

Here's a link to the NASA enduro reguations:

 

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/enduro.pdf

 

Refuling is covered there, but there are also a lot of other things that I don't think apply in a one-hour race.

 

It does say that the race director gets to choose their own method for determining the starting order. My vote is that we grid based on fuel economy

 

Don

Future Spec Prius Driver

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Jim P.

Folks,

We have put lots of thought into this, hence the choice of a 60 min race. It is truly a strategic quandry, should you be conservative and save fuel for the whole race or run hard and then come in to refuel? That's why we chose the 60 mins format, it is not too long that a thirsty car will have to refuel if they start out conservative, remember in order to finish first in a race you must first finish... or you could run hard and get a comfy lead and come in have a snack, refuel, change lugnuts and go back out to finish

 

Keep in mind that this race is for fun, just like the IFU race we had last weekend. Please don't take it to seriously!

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Fred Crawford
Folks,

We have put lots of thought into this, hence the choice of a 60 min race. It is truly a strategic quandry, should you be conservative and save fuel for the whole race or run hard and then come in to refuel? That's why we chose the 60 mins format, it is not too long that a thirsty car will have to refuel if they start out conservative, remember in order to finish first in a race you must first finish... or you could run hard and get a comfy lead and come in have a snack, refuel, change lugnuts and go back out to finish

 

Keep in mind that this race is for fun, just like the IFU race we had last weekend. Please don't take it to seriously!

 

Sorry thats crap, Jimbo, if this is the best Nasa can offer as an Enduro, I will be very dissappointed. " Conserve fuel " why not just go to McDonalds drive thru and get a sandwich too !!! This is just beyond reason......

I don't believe it is fair to charge the racers who will not be able to compete and or finish this race on Sunday. Maybe you will be kind enough to refund ( half $ ) ,the folks that choose not to run this on Sunday , we will get an early start home.

 

Fc

Mr. Deere

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mpowers

I say leave it. It levels the field and gives all a chance at a win.

 

Besides it's not likely the race will go the full distance of 60 minutes, think back to Feburary and last October. Neither were the full 60.

 

mpowers

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Adam Ginsberg

Lighten up, FC.

 

We have mandatory quiet hours from 11a-12n on Sunday, we'll probably schedule the race after one session after the quiet hours (ie. give the loud racecars 20 mins to get to grid after lunch... )

 

ie. The race will probably be from 12:20p to 1:20p

 

Sounds reasonable enough to me. TBH, initially, JB and I were hesitant about the enduro....but the more we discussed it, the more it sounded like a cool thing to do.

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Fred Crawford
Lighten up, FC.

 

We have mandatory quiet hours from 11a-12n on Sunday, we'll probably schedule the race after one session after the quiet hours (ie. give the loud racecars 20 mins to get to grid after lunch... )

 

ie. The race will probably be from 12:20p to 1:20p

 

Sounds reasonable enough to me. TBH, initially, JB and I were hesitant about the enduro....but the more we discussed it, the more it sounded like a cool thing to do.

 

Its not if its a cool thing to do, or do I want to do it,,,, its about me ( car ) racing one of my competitors (his car ) , he has large fuel tank, he races, me , small tank, I " conserve fuel " and just do laps " for fun".

 

In other clubs, They have "fun " races, ( CMP November ) but in the Sprint and enduro its a real race with pit stops to equal the field as it pertains to FUEL.. I love this sport and have lots of fun, however I am competitive and also just don't put time on my engine for "fun Laps ".

I consider Jimbo a good friend of mine, I just don't agree with his logic here.....

I am a team player but I'm not scared to take a stand , when I think I'm right.

 

Fc

Island

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Jim P.

True, a 60 min race with an out lap and an in lap will be about 55 mins long.

 

Next year we will try to add 90 min enduros to our schedule. The popularity of the IFU race last weekend proved that a longer possibly fun race at the end of day would be feasible. We are talking with tracks in 2008 to work out some more longer races at the end of the day and/or on friday.

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Adam Ginsberg
Its not if its a cool thing to do, or do I want to do it,,,, its about me ( car ) racing one of my competitors (his car ) , he has large fuel tank, he races, me , small tank, I " conserve fuel " and just do laps " for fun".

 

This is an excellent point to bring up - Competitor A has a smaller fuel tank/cell. Competitor B has a larger tank/cell. Competitor A wants a shorter enduro/pit window because he/she cannot go as long between stops as Competitor B. How is this the responsibility of NASA? Those are decisions made during car construction, and are outside NASA's control.

 

"I have a smaller cell, it's not fair!" is not a valid argument to utilize when contemplating the length of an enduro, as it only takes into consideration a smaller subset of the entries.

 

FWIW, I have a 12 gallon cell in my CMC car, so I fit into that small-cell category, too. Making the full hour for this enduro should just about empty it, so there is a concern about making the full distance without a refuel.

 

In other clubs, They have "fun " races, ( CMP November ) but in the Sprint and enduro its a real race with pit stops to equal the field as it pertains to FUEL.. I love this sport and have lots of fun, however I am competitive and also just don't put time on my engine for "fun Laps ".

I consider Jimbo a good friend of mine, I just don't agree with his logic here.....

I am a team player but I'm not scared to take a stand , when I think I'm right.

 

Fair enough.

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Lucid Moments
This is an excellent point to bring up - Competitor A has a smaller fuel tank/cell. Competitor B has a larger tank/cell. Competitor A wants a shorter enduro/pit window because he/she cannot go as long between stops as Competitor B. How is this the responsibility of NASA? Those are decisions made during car construction, and are outside NASA's control.

 

"I have a smaller cell, it's not fair!" is not a valid argument to utilize when contemplating the length of an enduro, as it only takes into consideration a smaller subset of the entries.

 

Its not about fair or not. But it is something he has to consider when he decides if he is going to participate in the event or not. This is a competitive group, and I wouldn't blame him for choosing not to enter an event he has no chance of winning. What NASA does need to consider (and I am quite sure that Jim has considered this) is how many people it will affect, and if the length of the even will affect attendance.

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REDRAGN53

Lucid to FCs defense...see Fred "No man is an island, entire of itself..."

 

Licid tolls the bell for thee

 

RD

Intellectual

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Falcon

We had this same kind of Enduro at CMP in Feb. Some driver's chose to stop for fuel, while others of us didn't.

 

When the dust settled and the smoke cleared, it was only 50 minutes of racing.

 

Come on Fred, don't be a curmudgeon. What are you going to do with your Sunday if you aren't at the race track with us? Sit home, watch the ballgames and shine on your car?

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olepokey

Main Entry: cur·mud·geon

Pronunciation: (")k&r-'m&-j&n

Function: noun

Etymology: origin unknown

1 archaic : MISER

2 : a crusty, ill-tempered, and usually old man

Yep, thats me!!!

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Fred Crawford
We had this same kind of Enduro at CMP in Feb. Some driver's chose to stop for fuel, while others of us didn't.

 

When the dust settled and the smoke cleared, it was only 50 minutes of racing.

 

Come on Fred, don't be a curmudgeon. What are you going to do with your Sunday if you aren't at the race track with us? Sit home, watch the ballgames and shine on your car?

 

Its not just me guys, several , many won't make a 60 minute race.... they are just not speaking up.....

We ran this race at CMP all leaders had to come in, it stunk then and now. I won't run a race that is not set up fair across the board. If at any point during my car building experience , someone would of whispered in my ear that we would run 1 hr races, I would of maybe done a fuel cell for that, however a sprint race is what Nasa runs,,,,,, I don't know of anyone running a 60 minute enduro, kinda short, does that really quallify as an enduro?

And Falcon, I'll chase the ole lady around the house, hope I don't run out of gas there

 

FC

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kbrew8991

it isn't just Fred that won't make a 50-55 min race. I'm not even racing and I'd like to see a mandatory 2 or so min stop.

 

I'll even volunteer my T&S expertise to help time all of them, just gimme a stopwatch or three or if that can be covered, I'll hop in my firesuit and help those without crews refill their cars

 

- KB

Problem Solver

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Fred Crawford
it isn't just Fred that won't make a 50-55 min race. I'm not even racing and I'd like to see a mandatory 2 or so min stop.

 

I'll even volunteer my T&S expertise to help time all of them, just gimme a stopwatch or three or if that can be covered, I'll hop in my firesuit and help those without crews refill their cars

 

- KB

Problem Solver

 

Theres a man with a plan........... I used to think you were BONEHEAD, but now, your okkedokke....

 

Fc

Exxon

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Karl
We had this same kind of Enduro at CMP in Feb. Some driver's chose to stop for fuel, while others of us didn't.

 

When the dust settled and the smoke cleared, it was only 50 minutes of racing.

 

Come on Fred, don't be a curmudgeon. What are you going to do with your Sunday if you aren't at the race track with us? Sit home, watch the ballgames and shine on your car?

 

Its not just me guys, several , many won't make a 60 minute race.... they are just not speaking up.....

We ran this race at CMP all leaders had to come in, it stunk then and now. I won't run a race that is not set up fair across the board. If at any point during my car building experience , someone would of whispered in my ear that we would run 1 hr races, I would of maybe done a fuel cell for that, however a sprint race is what Nasa runs,,,,,, I don't know of anyone running a 60 minute enduro, kinda short, does that really quallify as an enduro?

And Falcon, I'll chase the ole lady around the house, hope I don't run out of gas there

 

FC

 

and I dont think its fair that gts and aix cars get more power. how am I supposed to beat them

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p144
Its not if its a cool thing to do, or do I want to do it,,,, its about me ( car ) racing one of my competitors (his car ) , he has large fuel tank, he races, me , small tank, I " conserve fuel " and just do laps " for fun".

 

This is an excellent point to bring up - Competitor A has a smaller fuel tank/cell. Competitor B has a larger tank/cell. Competitor A wants a shorter enduro/pit window because he/she cannot go as long between stops as Competitor B. How is this the responsibility of NASA? Those are decisions made during car construction, and are outside NASA's control.

 

"I have a smaller cell, it's not fair!" is not a valid argument to utilize when contemplating the length of an enduro, as it only takes into consideration a smaller subset of the entries.

 

 

This is "club racing". It is the responsibility of NASA to make it fair. EVERY sanctioning body has to make it fair in some way. At the pro level they mandate fuel cell sizes. We don't have that rule, so a manditory pit stop is the only sensible alternative. Think about it. It can still be used for cars with better mpg's in that they don't have to fill up completely either time. Just enough to make the length and stay as light as possible. The guzzler's will have to top off both times.

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cwbaader

A SCCA rule NASA must not have adopted is that IT cars can have a cell no larger than stock...Perhaps we can implement this so many people have to change cells. Chuck

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