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NASA-SE:Great Pumpkin Run, Barber Motorsports Pk, Oct 13-14


Jim P.

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Most of the cars that have a perceived "advantage" are using their stock fuel tanks. We can stretch the enduro to 90 mins but I can vouch that there are many cars that can go that distance as well w/o refueling. If we could mandate fuel tank size it still wouldn't matter as you compare cars:

 

15 gal in 330 hp GTS5

vs

15 gal in 140 hp SpecE30

vs

15 gal in 600 hp SU

 

I purposely chose these examples to show that we are trying to compare apples and oranges. Other than making fruit salad you really cannot equalize the field.

 

This complete discussion reminds me of the NASCAR race at Daytona every year. Whoever wins (Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota) the others claim that they have an "aero advantage" and NASCAR makes a minor aero change to appease them. It is an annual ritual of NASCAR and they start complaining about the aero about a month before the race every year.

 

This is a good discussion, I wouldn't mind a mandatory pit stop, but how long? If it is:

 

5 mins - the driver who didn't have to stop has lost valuable time

 

1 min - the driver who did have to stop will risk pouring fuel all over the ground to get back out before 60 seconds is up...

 

Again it'll be another lengthy discussion about the pit stop. I want to stress that the sunday Barber race is for FUN and that everyone needs to approach it as such, don't make us invert the field 1/2 way thru the race... you know we'll do it if you start to take it too seriously

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2-3 minutes is adequate IMO, especially after my experience pit-crewing for the Pink Panther this past weekend

 

2 minutes works and leaves plenty of time to do it carefully if you've got a crew member, 3 might be needed if not everyone will have someone to pour gas for them

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This complete discussion reminds me of the NASCAR race at Daytona every year. Whoever wins (Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Toyota) the others claim that they have an "aero advantage" and NASCAR makes a minor aero change to appease them. It is an annual ritual of NASCAR and they start complaining about the aero about a month before the race every year.

 

 

Now see, that's a low blow when you start comparing us with the NASCRAP crowd. That hurts Jim. I just don't know what to think about that...

 

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Fred Crawford
I just created an "Enduros in 2008" topic for folks to vote on...

 

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=18031

 

jim, thanks for setting that up, plesae everyone try and think before responding, try to look at all classes and do whats best for all. I have raced many enduros, cars who did not need the stop, still had the advatage because they could stop and go, we that had to fuel, believe me took all 5 minutes , it just evens the field.

 

Fc

Rodney King of Nasa

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I can run a 60 minute enduro without needing fuel but I wouldn't be against a manditory pit stop. However, I'm assuming that when you guys are talking about "timed" stops, you are meaning "minimum" times, right? In other words, if a maditory pit stop would be required, I feel it should be for a minimum time (1 minute, 2 minutes, whatever, but it would need to be short - like no more than 2 min.). This way, it rewards the guys/gals who don't have to refuel, yet gives the thirstier bunch the opportunity to get gas - and more than likely, these are the faster, bigger HP cars that will be more prone to building a healthy lead. Therefore, I can see this as a possible way to level the field a bit and keep the racing close... Just thoughts.

 

Ed

match.com

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Fred Crawford
I can run a 60 minute enduro without needing fuel but I wouldn't be against a manditory pit stop. However, I'm assuming that when you guys are talking about "timed" stops, you are meaning "minimum" times, right? In other words, if a maditory pit stop would be required, I feel it should be for a minimum time (1 minute, 2 minutes, whatever, but it would need to be short - like no more than 2 min.). This way, it rewards the guys/gals who don't have to refuel, yet gives the thirstier bunch the opportunity to get gas - and more than likely, these are the faster, bigger HP cars that will be more prone to building a healthy lead. Therefore, I can see this as a possible way to level the field a bit and keep the racing close... Just thoughts.

 

Ed

match.com

 

Ed,

you are correct, manitory 3 or 5 minutes, if you don't need gas, you won't need a crew. You come in look at your watch, take out of the pits and you may acually pick up some time on an compeitor....

 

Fc

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You've got a good idea there... For this race, since it is primarily for fun, we'll bring in the top 5 or so drivers, hold them for 3-5 mins (based on how big a lead they had) to let the rest of the pack catch up and then send them on their way.

 

Or we could do it like they did at Lowes Motorspeedway with the "wheel of inversion" and the drivers were randomly placed in the field based on the spin of a wheel

 

-pt barnum

chief circus clown

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Assuming 3 minutes is the length of a mandatory pit stop, does that mean the car has to be sitting still for 3 minutes, or is that from the time it crosses the pit lane line until exit?

 

Can competitors come in for the pit stop anytime they want or will there be assigned times to come in? The pits could get real full if everyone has to come in at the same time.

 

How is all this going to be monitored?

 

Will grid worker be required to time each competitor to make sure they did the full 3 minutes?

 

Are there going to be speed limits down pit lane, like NASCAR or F1? It could get real dangerous there with cars coming in, some much faster than others, with guys fueling and being in the way.

 

I can see a lot of contentious areas here ripe for dispute at race end.

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you are correct, manitory 3 or 5 minutes, if you don't need gas, you won't need a crew. You come in look at your watch, take out of the pits and you may acually pick up some time on an compeitor....

 

Well, 3 to 5 minutes might be a little long. My point is, make it short enough for the slower guys who don't need fuel to be able to gain some space on track by only having to sit in the pits for say 1 or 2 minutes, and not too long so to give the thirsty guys enough time for a complete refueling stop (thus resulting in no help to the slower cars)... I don't know if I'm conveying my thoughts right, but, bascially, what I'm saying is it probably takes a good 3 to 5 minutes to get a car refueld with enough to finish a 60 minute enduro (w/crew). Only make the cars that don't need gas sit for a minute or 2 to help in closing the gap (again, I'm generalizing that the big HP cars will be the thirsty ones and way ahead). I hope you understand what I'm saying...

 

Ed

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you are correct, manitory 3 or 5 minutes, if you don't need gas, you won't need a crew. You come in look at your watch, take out of the pits and you may acually pick up some time on an compeitor....

 

Well, 3 to 5 minutes might be a little long. My point is, make it short enough for the slower guys who don't need fuel to be able to gain some space on track by only having to sit in the pits for say 1 or 2 minutes, and not too long so to give the thirsty guys enough time for a complete refueling stop (thus resulting in no help to the slower cars)... I don't know if I'm conveying my thoughts right, but, bascially, what I'm saying is it probably takes a good 3 to 5 minutes to get a car refueld with enough to finish a 60 minute enduro (w/crew). Only make the cars that don't need gas sit for a minute or 2 to help in closing the gap (again, I'm generalizing that the big HP cars will be the thirsty ones and way ahead). I hope you understand what I'm saying...

 

Ed

 

Short pit stops are a bad idea in my opinion. It encourages people to be unsafe. 5 minutes minimum would be my suggestion. Everyone can fuel and change a driver in that time. Hurrying a refuel or driver change is a bad idea.

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Having acutally run a SCCA enduro, 5 minutes is an excellent amount of time. In those 5 minutes, you can fuel, change driver and change tires and have at least a minute left over. 5 is good. Chuck

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Red Tornado

I would vote for at least 5 minute mandatory pit stops. Forces everyone to be safe, have plenty of time.

You get some fluids in you and the car and refuel is easier and less rush.

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Fred Crawford

The wise Falcon was circling high above . Soaring in the gental warm breezes of Savanna, the soft sweet smell of cut hay loomed in the air. Yes, John Deere had been doing some mowing at Roebling. The Falcon with his beady brown eyes, questioning, should I fly on to Barber. The Ole Falcon was tired, he had long lost his "heart for the kill " He feared the Deere would be there............................. circling, circling...........

 

Anonymous

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dsullinger

Just a friendly reminder to anyone driving through Atlanta on their way to Barber - rush hour around here usually starts before 3:00 on Friday afternoons, and on some routes it may last until well after 7:00.

 

Don't worry too much if you get caught in traffic, because you get an hour back when you cross into central time...

 

See you at the track!

 

-Don

AAA

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Just a friendly reminder to anyone driving through Atlanta on their way to Barber - rush hour around here usually starts before 3:00 on Friday afternoons, and on some routes it may last until well after 7:00.

Phew! I am glad we are going down in Thursday there probably won't any traffic in Atlanta on a thursday... (j/k)

 

PS. I don't think we have ever driven thru atlanta and not run into some type of traffic snarl... I don't know why they call it spaghetti junction when it always turns into goulash!!!

 

-inspector clouseau

pink car driver

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Fred Crawford
Just a friendly reminder to anyone driving through Atlanta on their way to Barber - rush hour around here usually starts before 3:00 on Friday afternoons, and on some routes it may last until well after 7:00.

 

Don't worry too much if you get caught in traffic, because you get an hour back when you cross into central time...

 

See you at the track!

 

-Don

AAA

 

What about am traffic ???????

 

Fc

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Lucid Moments
Just a friendly reminder to anyone driving through Atlanta on their way to Barber - rush hour around here usually starts before 3:00 on Friday afternoons, and on some routes it may last until well after 7:00.

 

Don't worry too much if you get caught in traffic, because you get an hour back when you cross into central time...

 

See you at the track!

 

-Don

AAA

 

What about am traffic ???????

 

Fc

 

Depends on how early. Usually gets bad by 7am or so and stays bad until after about 9.

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Lucid Moments
Lucidio,

 

at 830 am would bust straight thru or do the by pass

 

Fc

 

If you are hitting Atlanta at 8:30 AM I'd pull off somewhere and get breakfast. Give it 30 or 45 more minutes. But of the choices you listed take the bypass. Traffic will be harsh, but not as bad as on the downtown connector.

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