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Just two NASA events to get to Group 3


David Buschur

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I have attended two NASA events, both of them were for 3 days. The first time out I was in HPDE1 at Mid Ohio (of course I guess) and at the end of the 3 days my instructor moved me to HPDE2 for the next event. I was completely hooked after that first weekend.

 

I attended a track day at Beaver Run after that, no instructor, a charity event. I was nervous at first as I had never run there and I was by myself. I did really well and got comfortable quickly, I'd say half way through the warm up lap;)

 

Next time at Mid Ohio for my second NASA HPDE event I asked for an instructor. I was told instructors were for HPDE1 only. I was on my own and honestly, half way through the warm up lap I was confortable again. I spent another 3 days on track for that weekend and half way through the 3rd day I asked for an instructor to grade me for possible advancement to Group 3. The instructor drilled me pretty good with questions and I think he was actually trying to talk to me enough to break my concentration. I got off line once in the 20 minute session, told him I did and maybe we should stop BS'ing and he laughed. All was good, said he was impressed and signed me off for Group 3.

 

I haven't been back yet but I am going to my first event ever at Nelson Ledges this coming weekend. I will be in HPDE3 with no instructor. I am looking forward to it.

 

I am working towards my TT license and hope I can keep moving along at this rate. Looking forward to that transponder! haha

 

I have been racing for most of my life, if you guys consider drag racing, racing!

 

Seems as though this comes faster to some guys than it does others, maybe I have been lucky.

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Yes I am that one;)

 

Can't believe it took me this long to try road racing!! I really couldn't care if I ever made another pass down the drag strip, although I am sure I will. haha

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Well the NASA event that you went to for HPDE2 was very unique. In all the years that i have done NASA events I have never heard of not having instructors in HPDE 2.

 

Anyway, HPDE3 is different than one and two in that now you have point-by passing any where on the track. That is right you now can pass and be passed in the turns as well as the straights. Still is by point-by. Learn to use your mirrors well, it all about managing traffic.

 

Enjoy your new addiction

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Yes I am that one;)

 

Can't believe it took me this long to try road racing!! I really couldn't care if I ever made another pass down the drag strip, although I am sure I will. haha

 

heh. They say in drag racing a win equals a fast car, while road racing, a win equals a fast driver

 

Anyways, good to see you here!

 

As for differences in 2 versus 3, each region is different, quite honestly. In the Rocky Mountain, 1 is with instructors in the car, 2 is same run groups and times, but without an instructor in your car, 3 is a separate run group, as is 4, but 4 also runs with the time trialers as a run group. Usually in 3 (which is what I run in, for now), pasing starts out only in the straights in the first session, and progresses to mostly open passing by the end of the day, still with point bys. 4 starts out with open passing (with point bys) and stays there. In some other regions, 4 is reserved for instructors only, and 3 is where everyone stays, until they go to the racing groups, or time trials.

 

Also, while you are new to road course, you have quite a bit of experience with driving a car at a high rate of speed, (albeit for very short periods of time!!!) and while the skills probably don't transfer over very well, the general comfort level around and behind the wheel of a high performance vehicle do transfer over. In other words, you aren't nervous when you are doing 130 down the front straight.

 

So, welcome to the club! I hope to see you around at one of the events sometime; I'm in NASA Rocky Mountain, but there are some crossover events with Ohio (Hastings was one, I think)

 

Dave

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I was in your run group the friday of that weekend at Mid Ohio in the silver focus kind of in the same situation as you.

 

That was my 3rd day of HPDE and I asked an instructor to come out with me in the last session of the day to see if I was ready to move up. He made me earn it that is for certain, required I use heel toe on all downshifts and was talking to me the whole time.

 

My last event was aug 18-19 in HPDE 3. The gap between 1 &2 wasnt much but in 3 its WAY more intense. The traffic is much faster and the driver skill is also much higher. Most of the cars in the group that weekend were on R compounds while I was on street tires (and it rained on sunday!). And many of them High HP cars.

 

Go out there and have fun, you are gonna kick ass I am sure.

 

Who was TTing that eclipse of yours at nationals this past weekend?

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I have a question. You guys are saying that the Ohio section and the Rocky MT. section do not use instructor in HPDE2. As it always been like that or are you just that short of instructor. I know that in the NASA-MA and NASA-SE you have an instructor in 1 and 2. I thought that all NASA regions has the same setup. NASA-SE HPDE4 is instructors and TT and a few others drivers.

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Kim,

 

In the OH/IN region group 1 has instructors. Group 2 runs with group 1 but solo. You can request an instructor in group 2 and usually will get one if they are available. Group 3 runs as it's own group and no instructors, passing is with point-by's only on the straights. Depending on how well group 3 works together they sometime relax the passing rules to allow point-by's anywhere.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Mitch

HPDE 3

#173 2000 Z28

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I find the difference between regions interesting. Our group 3 is solo with point-by passing any where on the track. We do not do straights only as a warm up. not having instructors in Group 2 would free the instructors up. Our DE1 and 2 are large enough that they have their own run groups.

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Kim,

 

In the OH/IN region group 1 has instructors. Group 2 runs with group 1 but solo. You can request an instructor in group 2 and usually will get one if they are available. Group 3 runs as it's own group and no instructors, passing is with point-by's only on the straights. Depending on how well group 3 works together they sometime relax the passing rules to allow point-by's anywhere.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Mitch

HPDE 3

#173 2000 Z28

 

That is exactly how RM runs, except that so far, every event I have seen (and heard about) has allowed open passing (with point bys) in 3 by the end of the day. 1st session is straights only, 2nd is a couple of extra zones, 3rd is even more open, and 4th session is all track, with point bys.

 

I have heard that soem regions group 4 is reserved for instructors and TT only; in RM, that is not the case. Group 4 runs with the TT's, and is open to anyone who has signed off on 3, not just instructors.

 

Dave

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In other words, you aren't nervous when you are doing 130 down the front straight.

Well that part is easy, it is the 80 mph sideways in T1 that is the problem

As was previously mentioned, the different regions have different protocols. In the Mid Atlantic region, we have instructors in HPDE1 and HPDE2 for everyone and each group is on track seperately. HPDE3 is the advanced group without instructors. Our HPDE4 group IS the Instructor group. In MA HPDE3 is passing anywhere with a point. It is generally a very fast, highly experienced group. We verify the number of track days a driver has before allowing them to go in HPDE3. Not enough days, we will move you to HPDE2.

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In other words, you aren't nervous when you are doing 130 down the front straight.

Well that part is easy, it is the 80 mph sideways in T1 that is the problem

As was previously mentioned, the different regions have different protocols. In the Mid Atlantic region, we have instructors in HPDE1 and HPDE2 for everyone and each group is on track seperately. HPDE3 is the advanced group without instructors. Our HPDE4 group IS the Instructor group. In MA HPDE3 is passing anywhere with a point. It is generally a very fast, highly experienced group. We verify the number of track days a driver has before allowing them to go in HPDE3. Not enough days, we will move you to HPDE2.

 

What if said person has been signed off like in the situation stated by the OP. Then do they still get bumped to group 2 for only having a few days under their belt?

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Keep in mind that every region is different. The original poster has mentioned a scenario that is not common to NASA MA or SE. I would think that in our regions a driver MIGHT get bumped down and evaluated.

 

Our group 3 is FAST. It's safety is important, so I wouldnt be surprised if someone was bumped back.

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Try going side by side through t1 at mid-o with a z06, on your 2nd or 3rd session, ever, at 75-85 mph, when your 16, in your dad's daily driver. That's nervous.

 

 

 

Good Times, Good Times.

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Try going side by side through t1 at mid-o with a z06, on your 2nd or 3rd session, ever, at 75-85 mph, when your 16, in your dad's daily driver. That's nervous.

 

 

Good Times, Good Times.

 

Why are you going through side by side?!? There is NO passing in the corners for HPDE.

And 75-85mph through T1 at Mid-O, in a daily driver?

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Yes I am that one;)

 

Can't believe it took me this long to try road racing!! I really couldn't care if I ever made another pass down the drag strip, although I am sure I will. haha

 

Hey Dave,

 

It's good to hear you're finally turning the steering wheel...

 

Greg

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Well it seems as though I screwed up somewhere. I didn't intend for this to be a topic I started! I was answering a question in a different thread somewhere where someone asked how long it took other people to advance through HPDE. Sorry, I didn't mean for this to be a topic on it's own! haha

 

Anyway, Russ Warr was driving my Eclipse at the Nationals. He was suppose to drive Robert Fuller's EVO in TTA but the first lap it broke a stock rod. I knew they were long overdue to be upgraded! I loaned him the car since he was stuck in Ohio for 5 days anyway. He did pretty good running a 1.46 in it and placing 5th overall in TTE. The car was 250 pounds overweight, lost it's brakes and still has no alignment on it.

 

I think I am going to work on the car, put it into TTD and try to run it next year if I can get far enough along to get my TT license between now and then.

 

I'm undecided what to run this coming weekend at Nelson. I have the Eclipse ready and I finished up my Subaru tonight too. Problem with the Eclipse is the pedal position, no matter how hard I try it is impossible for me to heel and toe the car. Subaru and EVO are fine.

 

David Buschur

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I got stuck behind a WRX for 2 laps and recieved a point by on the front straight. The vette had show up behind me a lap earlier and I'd pointed him by us just before I got pointed by the Subie. I took the pass, not wanting to waste the oppurtunity, got back on line, and lifted well before T1, fully expecting the vette to shoot by, charge through the turn and disappear into the distance. He didn't do as expected, just barely got by and we went through the turn side by side-ish.

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Problem with the Eclipse is the pedal position, no matter how hard I try it is impossible for me to heel and toe the car. David Buschur

 

Had the same problem with my size 14-inch pontoons I call feet... it took trying (4) different brands of after-market pedals (and position changes) until I found the right fit.

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I didn't intend for this to be a topic I started! ...I didn't mean for this to be a topic on it's own!

 

You are the first poster and thus the thread starter.

 

I'm confused.

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Ah ha ha ha... Yeah I have done that before. Another forum I am on had a thread listing top ten newbie mistakes, that made the top ten.

 

Meh. Oh well, I am sure this thread will have value for many HPDErs.

 

Dont sweat it Dave.

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