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Nationals - Will it ever move to another track?


Lemming

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Mid-Ohio was a great choice for the Nationals non only because SCCA left but for the following objective reason: it is relatively close to a lot of people.

 

median center of US population (includes Hawaii and Alaska):

 

http://www.census.gov/geo/www/cenpop/medianctr.pdf

 

population density map of US from the census folks:

 

2k_night.jpg

 

and from http://www.vorys.com/CM/offices/offices620.asp

 

Columbus' geographical location and excellent transportation facilities help ensure its continued growth. ....Nearly two-thirds of the entire population of the United States and seven of the nation's ten largest cities are within 550 miles.

 

I am in Michigan and am only 300 miles from Mid-Ohio and enjoy the track. the above makes it relatively ideal for a national championship venue regardless of where i live.

 

personally, for 2008, i am planning on making a trek to Road Atlanta for the ARRC.

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  • 3 weeks later...
on the West Coast of all places, is laughable.

 

Eventhough Nationals will be held at Mid-Ohio for at least the next 3 years, why would the notion of the West Coast be "laughable" to host the National Championship someday?

 

its not really on the W.C. thats laughable, but going that far for a roval (which are everywhere and usually not very fun) just doesn't make sense...

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Given the option, once this contract runs out (and if it's not renewed), I'd like to see us go somewhere without a NASA presence. Road America? Pacific Raceway? Portland?

Why not HPT? I'll bet in a few years, the SCCA will be happy to trade the dates to NASA to get Mid-Ohio back.

 

because HPT sucks, I doubt anyone would spend money to go there....

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Given the option, once this contract runs out (and if it's not renewed), I'd like to see us go somewhere without a NASA presence. Road America? Pacific Raceway? Portland?

Why not HPT? I'll bet in a few years, the SCCA will be happy to trade the dates to NASA to get Mid-Ohio back.

 

because HPT sucks, I doubt anyone would spend money to go there....

 

NVM... double post

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Given the option, once this contract runs out (and if it's not renewed), I'd like to see us go somewhere without a NASA presence. Road America? Pacific Raceway? Portland?

Why not HPT? I'll bet in a few years, the SCCA will be happy to trade the dates to NASA to get Mid-Ohio back.

 

because HPT sucks, I doubt anyone would spend money to go there....

 

Have you driven HPT? Ever been there? It is a nice track; not Mid-Ohio nice, but better than A LOT of others.

 

That being said...bring on 2008 at M-O.

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MidOhio is what it is. One sort of passing zone and thats it. That is going create frustration and probably some wrecked cars. I think we can complain and recommend all we want to, but I doubt its going to change a lot.

 

One passing zone? MidO has 3 good passing zones and I've used them all. Turn 1, turn 3 and turn 7. I've also made quality passes in Thunder valley and in the carousel. This was at SCCA runoffs in 03 and 04 in a Showroom Stock C Neon... not a lot of speed difference in this class either.

 

Given the option, once this contract runs out (and if it's not renewed), I'd like to see us go somewhere without a NASA presence. Road America? Pacific Raceway? Portland?

Why not HPT? I'll bet in a few years, the SCCA will be happy to trade the dates to NASA to get Mid-Ohio back.

 

because HPT sucks, I doubt anyone would spend money to go there....

 

Ken, I would have never expected that kind of response from you. From all of your previous post on this forum I would have thought you're better than that.

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HPT just isn't the quality we'd need for Natl's, I can't believe SCCA still goes there....

 

sorry, I feel a bit strongly about it...

 

I think about the only facilites that are worthy outside of Mid-Ohio are possibly VIR (full course of course) and Miller in Utah... but my vote is for VIR so I don't have to drive so far muhahaha

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I think Heartland Park made a very good offer to the SCCA and they are trying hard, but they have two things working against them. Its not a good nor a track with history and while its in the middle of the country its a long way from any population center.

 

Sort of the opposite of Road Atlanta. Far from the west but near enough to major population centers and with good weather.

 

I think there are more tracks that are National quality than just Miller and VIR. VIR may be arguably the best road course in the country(see the car and driver article on the subject), but Sebring, Road Atlanta, Watkins Glen and Mid Ohio are all of that caliber for different reasons. Laguna Seca and Sears Point are good too.

 

I think the way to approach this is with a regional/national meet. When there are enough racers willing to make a long haul to make it viable three or four racer only events could be held that both enhance the prestige and financial viability of the regions and build the level of racing.

 

One racer only weekend in the Northeast(Thunderbolt or Watkins Glen). One Midwest/Oh-IN/TX(Road America, MidOhio, TWS)

One Western(Miller, Infineon, Laguna Seca)

One National Championships.

 

It will take more racers and more desire for national participation. But that could happen in the future. IMO

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I know the subject is what tracks should Nationals be run at, but I am surprised no one has brought up the possibilty of tow mileage points. I think this would definately bring more competitors to where ever the track is.

Bryan Cohn would probably be the person to ask about this, but I would be willing to pay a few extra dollars on my membership or entry fees to help out someone from one of the coasts to get to Nationals.

 

Anyone else feels this way?

 

Actually, there are at least two threads asking for discounts for the long distance haulers. Everything got shot down. I know personally that the haul to and from MO from Cal cost probably more in gas alone than most spent for the Nats total. Less racers came from Cal this year and probably less next year as the gas prices keep going up.

 

One of the original suggestions, was discounted entry fee based on where you live/tow from. May be hard to police but very possible. Woldn't even come close to covering the extra cost but it's an incentive none the less. The entry fee could be raised slightly for all to cover this.

 

Entry fee for racer who doesn't show up, $0

Entry fee discounted for someone's long haul, $200

That's $200 more than doing nothing and an extra car in the field.

No brainer as far as I'm concerned.

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I live about 90min from MidOhio so life is pretty good for me. That being said, I wouldn't mind paying $25 more to help offset someone's cross country tow.

 

The way I look at it, I want to compete with the best at the National Championships. And if I have to pay a little extra to help get the best to come over then it's worth it.

 

I had a great time at Nationals in 2007, but it just wasn't the same without getting to pass Meze like last year....

 

- Mark

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I am a Western US budget racer. Towing from Az to MO is expensive and time consuming. It would take me about an entire season budget to just run nationals. I simply can't afford that.

 

Now what I could afford to do is run nationals on a track near the rockies once every other year. Maybe a Miller or track never Denver (Genoa?) every other year.

 

So lets say on the odd years we run Nationals at Mid-Ohio and Nationals at Miller in the even years. Some guys will run it every year and other just in the years it is closer to their region. This means So-Cal guys have it "cheap" every other year and East coast guys have "cheap" every other year. Right now the east coast guys a "cheap tow" every year and So-cal guys have $$$$$$$ tows every year.

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realistically, there are only two ways to make a rotating nationals work.

 

1. Run the nationals at one location for several years and then move to another region for several years. The only way to get dates is to get them for the long term and maintain them. If there is one nationals, then it really has to be in the same place every year with the option of changing that location every 5 or 10 years.

 

2. You run three national or semi-national events every year so that three dates can be acquired and maintained. That allows for moving the main event every year in rotation, but requires keeping all three dates active and thus cutting down on potential turn out at a single event.

 

That could be done by having TT championships at one venue, race championships at the 2nd venue and possibly a large/long endurance race/autocross championships at the 3rd venue. That would allow for say, Miller Motorsports Park, MidOhio and Road Atlanta to host one of the three events each September in a rotating fashion.

 

The ONLY way to make this a viable option is to create car counts at each event that approach the car count for the current single event. That means a lot of growth is required first.

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Cobra,

I agree that one of the largest issues with an alternating championship is keeping the track date in the off years. Most tracks like to schedule the same orgs for the same weekend each year.

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Although the Fontana track does have both an infield road course configuration and a Roval configuaration that uses part of the NASCAR track, most road racers don't like Rovals and IMO it would be very unpopular to host a national championship at this type of venue. However, the main reason I called the suggestion "laughable" is because California is pretty damn far from where most of the people live in this country, especially racers. Trust me, I lived in LA for eight years so I know all about the feeling that it is the center of the universe. However, one only needs to look at the geographic population density of the US to realize that the majority of people actually live EAST of the Mississippi, and the best way to ensure the failure of this event would be to put it in California.

 

Except three of the biggest NASA regions are on or near the west coast. I do agree that CS would be pretty ridiculous, as would Daytona. I'm sure CS/Daytona would be a really exciting track in a TTF car.

 

As Joe said, MO is an insanely far tow from Arizona, and it's sad to think about it knowing nationals will never get any closer. I can't imagine how many thousands of dollars it would be to run Nationals, not to mention the 10 days off work, driving 2000 miles each way etc. Not that I don't want to do, it just don't know if I could afford it financially.. I could run Laguna Seca five times or I could sit out eight months of racing locally for the price of going to Mid Ohio once. Let me think about that..

 

It makes sense for the people who are central/eastern regions, but I don't really know how "national" the national championships are, if hardly anyone from the west coast is going.

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  • National Staff

These are just some of my observations to add to this discussion. I am not suggesting that we actually make changes based on them.

 

Matt, one thing that I find interesting in regard to Time Trial is that I could guarantee NASA that I could get 100 TT drivers from NorCal/SoCal/AZ alone to come out to California Speedway for a TT National Championship. If we added in those that would make the trek from east of the Rockies, I bet it would be over 120. We have been able to get about 60-65 TT drivers each year to go to Mid-Ohio. And, although I admit that as far as road courses go, there are much better ones out there (already mentioned), we sell out our Cal Speedway event every year. Where else can a guy drive an SRT4 at over 140 mph in a turn?

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I am very, very, very partial to Cal.Speedway. It is 10 min from my house. It is a fun course too, too bad we only run there one a year.

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I don't really feel that seperating TT for National Championships is a good idea... and I'd not be able to make a Cali event, not for several years until my budget grew some

 

we're always going to screw someone when deciding a place for these things

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we're always going to screw someone when deciding a place for these things

 

Yep that is why I suggested an alternating location. This way instead of the same guys getting screwed year after year everyone get screwed every other year. The biggest draw back to that idea has been stated with respect to maintaining the track date in the "off years".

 

The one thing I can appereciate is that putting on Nationals is a very very large effort and that moving the location just increases the effort to host it year over year.

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we're always going to screw someone when deciding a place for these things

 

 

Well, if a compromise pleased everyone, it would be called a solution

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a realistic scenario requires splitting racing from TT and moving the Thunderhill endurance race as well.

 

Rotating the three events thru the three tracks of choice. I am not seeing Thunderhill as a location for the Nationals and so that would mean sacrificing that event at that venue possibly.

 

Would west coasters support the nationals at thunderhill? if yes, you score a late date at Sebring or Road Atlanta or VIR and rotate the three events thru VIR9(say). Mid Ohio and Thunderhill ( or the west coast track of choice).

 

Even with this there are hard decisions.

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