99cobra2881 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 How does one tell a difference between a FR500 ABS unit and a stock S197 ABS unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 From what I hear, the part number on the sticker is different. Draw your own conclusions from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilson7 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 So Jeff, when you bring an FR500S to an AI race remember to switch the stickers over..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99cobra2881 Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 remember to switch the stickers over..... My thoughts exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pederb Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 One of our west cost guys, Ryan Walton did some testing for a magazine last weekend and compared his AI Mustang who did a 1:00 at Willow Springs to the the Miller Cup Car's 1:01. They also tested a lot of other different S197 models. So I guess a old Fox Hatch is still faster then a Miller Cup Car. I should mention that Ryan is a very good driver and his car is always in the top 5 at every race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Ryan's Fox-Body is FAR more developed than the FR500S cars. There is a TON of things you could to that FR500S to pick up a second - and likely much more - within the AI rules. I think that one second difference proves very clearly which car has the POTENTIAL to be faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Ryan's Fox-Body is FAR more developed than the FR500S cars. There is a TON of things you could to that FR500S to pick up a second - and likely much more - within the AI rules. I think that one second difference proves very clearly which car has the POTENTIAL to be faster. If they would ship one to Texas and hand me the keys, I will ring one out for them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Someone buy me one and let's end this debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pederb Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Ryan's Fox-Body is FAR more developed than the FR500S cars. There is a TON of things you could to that FR500S to pick up a second - and likely much more - within the AI rules. I think that one second difference proves very clearly which car has the POTENTIAL to be faster. Oh I agree Scott, but I do not think it's the magic bullet that will kill AI that some other people seam to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehawkclone Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 (edited) I ran with Ryan on Sunday, his car wasn't handling very well at all! He was way off his normal times on the big track. He may have fixed it the morning of the test though. Edited February 13, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodeoFlyer Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 One of our west cost guys, Ryan Walton did some testing for a magazine last weekend and compared his AI Mustang who did a 1:00 at Willow Springs to the the Miller Cup Car's 1:01. They also tested a lot of other different S197 models. So I guess a old Fox Hatch is still faster then a Miller Cup Car. I should mention that Ryan is a very good driver and his car is always in the top 5 at every race. are you sure that's not 1:31.00 vs 1:30.00 ...? The track record at Willow is a 1:06 in a F! car I believe. Ryan's car is a notch- not a hatch, btw I own an S197 that is modified further than the FR500S, albeit a street car so it's much heavier. I also own a 93' fox with a combination of Griggs and Maximum stuff. My S197 is easier to drive, but it's not any faster than my fox. Ross Murray's car is almost done, so THAT is the car that will teabag everybody this year - without the FRPP ABS unit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pederb Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 One of our west cost guys, Ryan Walton did some testing for a magazine last weekend and compared his AI Mustang who did a 1:00 at Willow Springs to the the Miller Cup Car's 1:01. They also tested a lot of other different S197 models. So I guess a old Fox Hatch is still faster then a Miller Cup Car. I should mention that Ryan is a very good driver and his car is always in the top 5 at every race. are you sure that's not 1:31.00 vs 1:30.00 ...? The track record at Willow is a 1:06 in a F! car I believe. Ryan's car is a notch- not a hatch, btw I own an S197 that is modified further than the FR500S, albeit a street car so it's much heavier. I also own a 93' fox with a combination of Griggs and Maximum stuff. My S197 is easier to drive, but it's not any faster than my fox. Ross Murray's car is almost done, so THAT is the car that will teabag everybody this year - without the FRPP ABS unit It was at The Streets of Willow not the big track. I can't wait to Ross with his new car, will he make TH next month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodeoFlyer Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 That makes much more sense. Ross is planning on being out there this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 I had some inquiries about the FR500S eligibility in AI at our MSR Houston event last weekend. I think the heart of the question was to have a place for the car to play between Mustang Challenge events, not to modify it for AI use. (Those folks likely won't come for a few years.) As a side note, did the factory seam weld the shock towers on these cars or even on the prior S197 BIW's? Just curious as I saw some and wondered if that was "as supplied". -=- Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Racing Posted February 14, 2008 Share Posted February 14, 2008 It was at The Streets of Willow not the big track. That little detail makes rather a HUGE difference when discussing lap times. C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 I had some inquiries about the FR500S eligibility in AI at our MSR Houston event last weekend. I think the heart of the question was to have a place for the car to play between Mustang Challenge events, not to modify it for AI use. (Those folks likely won't come for a few years.) As a side note, did the factory seam weld the shock towers on these cars or even on the prior S197 BIW's? Just curious as I saw some and wondered if that was "as supplied". The ABS Module in the FR500S was deemed not legal for AI, so a production module would have to be swapped in. Other than tires it would be legal, although way underpowered for AI. The FR500S is not seam welded; the FR500C/GT, and the caged bodies that were previously sold are seam welded... EVERYWHERE. Also, the car Ryan tested wasn't a FR500S, it was one of Miller's in-house Challenge cars... and also consider the tire difference (BFG R1's) when making a comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Ok....so a FR500C with engine package in it for proper power to weight numbers. Would that be legal with the correct ABS module? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 Ok....so a FR500C with engine package in it for proper power to weight numbers. Would that be legal with the correct ABS module? Yes....and slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted February 16, 2008 Share Posted February 16, 2008 The FR500S is not seam welded; the FR500C/GT, and the caged bodies that were previously sold are seam welded... EVERYWHERE. quote] Thanks Jeff...that helps and explains a lot. -=- Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Actually, I think you missed my point...as long as it is an unmodified system as delivered on the street car, ANY OEM ABS system is allowed under the current rules... The FR system is not an OEM but is a race piece from a race car... Maybe I don't understand what OEM means. I thought it was Original Equipment Manufacturer. Ah, the question of the day! And the catch 22! The precedent for an OEM LS1 motor being allowed to be installed into an OEM fox chassis pretty well establishes I can run a BMW ABS if I so desire as long as it's installed in the same manner it was found in the OEM configuration with no programming changes. An LS1 is legal for AI, as GM makes AI legal cars. I have yet to see a BMW that qualifies for the main rule of AMERICAN Iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 An LS1 is legal for AI, as GM makes AI legal cars. I have yet to see a BMW that qualifies for the main rule of AMERICAN Iron. but if you want to run the ABS unit and a V10 from a M5, you could. It's an OEM system...rules don't state it has to be a US OEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Corkran Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 It's an OEM system...rules don't state it has to be a US OEM. Yes, they do. 4. h) “OEM” for purposes of these rules is defined as Ford Motor Company, General Motors, or DaimlerChrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 It's an OEM system...rules don't state it has to be a US OEM. Yes, they do. 4. h) “OEM” for purposes of these rules is defined as Ford Motor Company, General Motors, or DaimlerChrysler. I would agree that applies to the body of the vehicle...doesn't implicitly apply to any suspension, engine or drivetrain components... Different interpretations... Besides, bosch makes the ABS unit in a BMW, same as a Mustang, just a different part number. The "catch all" could be in 7.1 about performance enhancements falling in line with section 4, however, that "technically" procludes the use of NON-OEM heads, cams and intakes if you hold us to the letter of the law of "OEM". Now move that statement in section 4 up to section 1 governing the entire rules set, then yes, OEM is pretty well defined as F, C or DC, and creates issues with aftermarket parts which we are supposed to be a showcase for...intent? Still wouldn't get rid of the Mustang SS but.... It's just another hole that needs to be sewn up in the rules....along with MANY others! I am just glad there isn't someone with "stupid" money currently in the series exploiting the rules to their fullest or we would have One off noses on AI cars that look like koenigseggs or Ultima GTR's. Can you imagine an F1 car style suspension under the nose, or even an F1 wing on an F-body?! I guess my point is that when the only rules dictating compliance are the willingness to spend money, you sort of lose the "grassrootsness" of the series! Anyway, this is all just fun rules banter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I guess my point is that when the only rules dictating compliance are the willingness to spend money, you sort of lose the "grassrootsness" of the series! Anyway, this is all just fun rules banter! I've been arguing points like that for a while, but I think it's really going to take someone to spend insane money on an AI car to close down the rules a little. For now, we're all still on a max 275 tire with a loose nut behind the wheel, so drive the crap out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I've been arguing points like that for a while, but I think it's really going to take someone to spend insane money on an AI car to close down the rules a little. For now, we're all still on a max 275 tire with a loose nut behind the wheel, so drive the crap out of it. So 30-40k in motors for a weekend isn't insane? $100k for a built AI car...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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