2008 safety equipment questions

[BrandonT]

I was re-reading the rules for TT today and I want to see if I can summarize this correctly:

 

From my reading of the rules, these should be the approved setups:

1. Any seat, stock belts, with or without a roll bar or cage.

2. Stock seat*, Scroth ASM belts (only DOT system I know of), with or without a bar or cage.

3. Any seat, full race 5/6pt belts, cage required - possibly with seat support.

 

Is that correct or did I miss something?

 

Also I thought the "DOT approved" harnesses were going to be phased out this year. They're still in the rules, so I guess not. Does anyone know - is this change still on the table for the future?

 

*NOTE: Schroth only tests the ASM system with stock seats, so the DOT rating is lost if you combine the ASM system with an aftermarket seat.

[Grumpy]

I was re-reading the rules for TT today and I want to see if I can summarize this correctly:

 

From my reading of the rules, these should be the approved setups:

1. Any seat, stock belts, with or without a roll bar or cage.

2. Stock seat*, Scroth ASM belts (only DOT system I know of), with or without a bar or cage.

3. Any seat, full race 5/6pt belts, cage required - possibly with seat support.

 

Is that correct or did I miss something?

 

Also I thought the "DOT approved" harnesses were going to be phased out this year. They're still in the rules, so I guess not. Does anyone know - is this change still on the table for the future?

 

*NOTE: Schroth only tests the ASM system with stock seats, so the DOT rating is lost if you combine the ASM system with an aftermarket seat.

 

1. No. Most aftermarket seats do not work well with OEM belts. Most likely aftermarket seat will require aftermarket belts.

 

2. No. If DOT belts have single crotch belt. Crotch belt needs to go thru hole in seat. Cutting the hole in a stock seat is discouraged at best.

 

3. No. Rollcages are not required in any seat/seatbelt configuration in TT. Rollbars are required for convertibles. Again stock seats don't work well without hole for a five point belt setup.

 

Summarizing:

 

OEM seat, OEM belt, no roll bar ==> OK

OEM seat, OEM belt, roll bar ==> depends

Race seat, OEM belt, rollbar or not ==> depends, usually not OK

OEM seat, DOT belt, rollbar or not ==> depends on seat

Race seat, DOT belt, rollbar or not ==> depends, usually OK.

OEM seat, race belts, rollbar or not ==> depends on installation.

Race seat, race belts, no rollbar ==> some say not good

Race seat, race belts, rollbar ==> OK

Roll cages are not required, but recommended.

 

"Depends" relates to fitment of the individual pieces to each other, and cannot be determined unless the car is seen.

 

These are the safety rules. I don't think TT rules contradict any of these.

[Greg G.]

In number 2, he was referring to the DOT approved 4 point harnesses by Schroth. And, as he mentioned, the DOT rating is based on testing with an OEM seat. So, #2 is a yes.

 

There are no TT Rules that contradict the HPDE safety rules.

[BrandonT]

The section on harnesses is pretty clear. OEM, DOT approved, or meet CCR 15.5 (full race).

 

This is the section that addresses seats:

 

11.4.12 Seats 
All seats must be securely fastened to the structure of the car such that they are strong 
enough to withstand a major impact.  If replaced, the replacement seat should be 
installed according to the manufacturer’s instructions.  

If stock seats are to be used with a roll bar/cage, care should be taken to prevent the 
seat from submarining under the rollbar. Care should also be taken to prevent the 
occupant from hitting his/her head on the roll bar/cage. 

Passenger seats must meet the same requirements, per the CCR, as the driver seat, if 
used by passengers.  Note- The passenger seat does not have to match the driver’s 
seat. 

 

I don't see anything in that section about meeting any requirements or restrictions for the type of seat at all. It would reason that the stock belts might not fit well in a racing bucket (with high hips), and maybe that fails due to common sense. But stock belts would work fine (fit wise) with a street / sport style seat (IE: A reclining Recaro). Now I understand that testing hasn't been done for that and it may be a bad idea, but the rules seem to allow that combination.

 

When it comes to roll cages I agree that TT does not require them. However if you want a 5/6pt belt my understanding is this: When you run a 5/6pt harness with a sub strap you have to run those straps through a race seat since you can't cut holes in an OEM seat. Since you are putting in a race bucket and 6 pt, you are now locked in and can't move should the car roll over. Because of that now you need to provide crush protection by adding a roll bar or cage. So when I said "Race seat, 5/6pt harness, cage required", that's why. It isn't required by TT, but by the seat and harness. Is that wrong? Can you run a 6pt and FIA bucket with no cage?

[Grumpy]

Four point does not need a seat hole, five point does, six point does not, seven point does. (six pt belts have no sub strap.)

 

Many people think that sitting upright with no roll bar is not something to worry about because of the high ratio of wheels on the ground hits (seatbelt works fine) to rollovers (seatbelt might cause issue.) So this is a matter of personal preference.

 

However most race seat belts need a harness guide (usually part of a roll bar.)

 

Also note roll cages are different than roll bars. Roll cages are never required.

[BrandonT]

Four point does not need a seat hole, five point does, six point does not, seven point does. (six pt belts have no sub strap.)

 

Ah, I run a 5pt with a split sub strap. I thought that was considered a 6pt. Did some searching and I see the difference. My bad.