mcmmotorsports Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 If I mount an aluminum seat along with a harness bar, does the aluminum seat need to be mounted in accordance to the CCR? Meaning, does it need a back brace in addition to the side mounts? Quote
Bruce L. Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 you should ask your region's tech inspector bruce Quote
eclricochet Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 you should ask your region's tech inspectorbruce I agree with him. That is the best source of knowledge to your specific needs. I do want to ask though, do you have a roll bar or a two-point very unsafe harness bar? If it is just a harness bar I suggest avoiding fixed back seats and harnesses all together until you can afford proper safety equipment. The two-point harness bars off no roll over protection so your harnesses hold you in the seat as the roof comes in. Just my opinion on that worst case scenario. --Doug Quote
STRINGER Posted March 6, 2008 Posted March 6, 2008 If I mount an aluminum seat along with a harness bar, does the aluminum seat need to be mounted in accordance to the CCR? Meaning, does it need a back brace in addition to the side mounts? According to Jeff Curtis (Mid-Atlantic Chief Instructor), seat back bracing is not needed for HPDE. But in racing they are required for all non FIA approved seats and FIA approved seats over 5 years old. According to UltraShield, FIA has not approved any aluminum seat to date. Also, proper installation according to the manufacturer when mounting the seat in the car is a must. I contacted UltraShield and discussed how to put in my seats, what size bolts to use and placement of the bolts, then I sent them photo's of the install just to be on the safe side. I have done a lot of homework on this subject in the last few weeks as I had the same question. Quote
mcmmotorsports Posted March 7, 2008 Author Posted March 7, 2008 I do want to ask though, do you have a roll bar or a two-point very unsafe harness bar? If it is just a harness bar I suggest avoiding fixed back seats and harnesses all together until you can afford proper safety equipment. The two-point harness bars off no roll over protection so your harnesses hold you in the seat as the roof comes in. Just my opinion on that worst case scenario. --Doug This is going to be a 944cup car with a full cage by July but I am doing an HPDE with it in May. I have an aluminum seat, harness and a friend has a harness bar I can borrow. Realistically speaking, how does using a harness bar differ from a factory setup? I am still held into the seat by the factory belts when the roof comes in. Quote
dbgeek Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 According to UltraShield, FIA has not approved any aluminum seat to date. Also, proper installation according to the manufacturer when mounting the seat in the car is a must. I contacted UltraShield and discussed how to put in my seats, what size bolts to use and placement of the bolts, then I sent them photo's of the install just to be on the safe side. I have done a lot of homework on this subject in the last few weeks as I had the same question. Stringer, Care to share the info? I'm currently staring at the Ultrashields in my garage, looking to mount them in the next week or so. I was planning on using 5/16 or 3/8 bolts through the floor with 3/16" 2" x 2" drilled steel backing plates with rounded corners. Thanks, Pete Quote
STRINGER Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 Stringer, Care to share the info? I'm currently staring at the Ultrashields in my garage, looking to mount them in the next week or so. I was planning on using 5/16 or 3/8 bolts through the floor with 3/16" 2" x 2" drilled steel backing plates with rounded corners. Thanks, Pete This is from UltraShield directly about the installation. The best place in the back of the seat would be below the shoulder holes and above the weld that joins the head and back of the seat. As close to this point as you can get it the better as most of the side load will come from the shoulders and hips. At the bottom of the seat you may bolt directly through the bottom or use brackets that bolt to the floor and to the sides of the seat. Ideally use 2 bolts in the back and 4 in the bottom with a minimum bolt being a 7/16" Grade 8, all nuts and washers should also be grade 8. Use large washers inside the seat to prevent the bolts from pulling through. A good tip is to use bolts that are rounded with an hex key or other type head over the hex head that would be used with wrenches and sockets, this allows the person in the seat to feel the bolt minimally. Ultra·Shield Race Products, LLC 19313 Hwy 69 S. Flint, TX 75762 http://www.ultrashieldrace.com" Now, I chose to craft a set of plates to bolt in the factory seat point and take advantage of them. I just cant bring myself to drill holes through my car yet. This may be the ideal thing if the car is a daily driver. This way, in just a matter of minutes, you cant put the stock seats back in for comfort. I doubt I could stand a 4 hour drive on public roads in a race seat. But thats not my case since I tow to the track. This is a picture of the bolt points on my seat. Quote
Glenn Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 i've run an UltrShield seat in my Street/HPDE car w/ no seatback brace and the seat flexed like crazy. aluminum seats are not made rigidly enough to be intended to be used w/out a brace. i use the same seat now in my CMC Camaro and it is very rigid. use a brace w/ this type seat or do not use the seat at all. Quote
STRINGER Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 i've run an UltrShield seat in my Street/HPDE car w/ no seatback brace and the seat flexed like crazy. aluminum seats are not made rigidly enough to be intended to be used w/out a brace. i use the same seat now in my CMC Camaro and it is very rigid. use a brace w/ this type seat or do not use the seat at all. Though I do plan on putting a seat back brace on the seats...I am not sure I can fabricate them in time for VIR. My UltraShield Spec Miata seats do flex a little, but it is very little. When strapped in...it is even less. I just cant see spending $180 on seat back braces when I can make them for less then $40. Quote
Glenn Posted March 7, 2008 Posted March 7, 2008 then dont put the seat in if you dont have the time yet. if you were to back that car intot he wall or get hit from the rear hard enough, that seat will fold up. i was too uninformed at the time to realize this. i now know better. i wish someone would have told me like i'm telling you. dont install it if you dont do it right. the goal is to make things more safe, not less. Quote
STRINGER Posted March 8, 2008 Posted March 8, 2008 Thanks for the info Glenn. I wished I would have had this info before hand. (Though I do know now) But, at this time I dont have a choice as the stock seats are long gone....the Ultrashields are installed... But I am planning on the seat back brace. I know where your going with this Glenn and I agree with you. But sometimes lack of knowledge makes for ill informed choices. Quote
formula87 Posted May 23, 2008 Posted May 23, 2008 Thanks for the info Glenn. I wished I would have had this info before hand. (Though I do know now) But, at this time I dont have a choice as the stock seats are long gone....the Ultrashields are installed... But I am planning on the seat back brace. I know where your going with this Glenn and I agree with you. But sometimes lack of knowledge makes for ill informed choices. Are you fabing the brace or buying it? Mine I bought from IO port. I wonder what the difference is in the strength in the way you mounted the seats from the bottom. I mounted mine from the side.[attachment=1]carbackbrace.JPG[/attachment][attachment=0]cageseatbracket2.JPG[/attachment] Quote
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