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AZHC H2 class update


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Posted

So ... Erik Woods and I (Scott Brewer) pulled the ballast out of our H4 cars this weekend and joined 4 other H2 cars on the grid to make it a 6-car class. This is sort of a milestone for us as it's been a few years since we've had a single class of HC cars that large here. The great thing is that there are no less than 4 cars that are either complete or being built that should be joining the class for the 2nd half of the season. All of those drivers were present and involved throughout the weekend and I think they came away more motivated than ever to get out there with us. It's conceivable that we could see a double digit car count in H2 by the end of the season, which would make H2 the largest single class in AZ.

 

I just wanted to post this as an affirmation of the potential that this class has in regions like AZ and as a thanks to the rule makers for making it happen. We had some great racing this weekend and I think enthusiasm for HC is at or near an all time high here.

 

Erik and I have decided to move forward with converting our cars to H2 prep and we will run the rest of the season and foreseeable future with that class. We split the H2 class victories for the weekend with me winning on Saturday and Erik following up with a victory on Sunday. The other H2 cars are all fairly new and in shakedown mode, so I doubt it will be long before they are competitive.

 

If anyone wants to see video, my in-car from Sunday is here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3431845387012521485&hl=en

 

I had to start in the back after my starter switch failed on grid. I DNF'd about 1/2 way through the race when I started seeing/smelling smoke in the cabin (doesn't show up well in the video, but it was there). The car didn't catch fire though and I was able to get back to the pits safely.

 

- Scott

Posted

That's great!

 

NorCal also had 6 H2 cars this last weekend.

 

And 2 more planning on being at the next event.

Posted

Curious scott what did you think of the weight drop? I know you wont be able to get down to 2200lbs but how much did ballast did you yank out of the car?

 

 

We have a whole field of H2 cars, Mike U. was pretty shocked at the difference the weight made in his car. And i was shocked looking at those hunks of weight in the passenger floor!!

Posted

We took about 100 lbs out of my car this weekend between pulling ballast, running w/o aero, and ditching the passenger side door glass and cover along with a few odds and ends. My plan is to try to drop around 70# more if I can and run a B20 motor. That will put me at 2350#, 100 over min weight for the B20. I honestly didn't notice that much of a difference in seat of the pants feel with my car at 2420 vs 2520, but I did seem to be pulling a little harder in a straight line versus cars that I'm usually a little more even with. I didn't make any setup changes at all, so perhaps I can tune better for the lower weight in the future. It was hard to gauge how much time was gained as we took weight out throughout the weekend because the track conditions were changing session by session. I did run my best lap of the weekend in Sunday's qualifying (1:12.55x) with the car at it's lightest point. That time was only a couple tenths off of my personal best at PIR (1:12.3xx) and I think the track was slower as air temps were near 80*. I pretty much stayed in the 1:12.7 - 1:12.9 range throughout the weekend even as weight and track temps changed though, so maybe I was just driving the car to some mental limit instead of taking advantage of the changes that we made. It's hard to say.

 

As sort of a funny anecdote, I've never really bothered with corner balancing my car or getting my cross weights right or anything. I think my cross weights were something like 46/54 before this weekend, but when we pulled my car on the scales to see how much weight we'd removed, my cross weights were 49.9/50.1. I thought that was funny how that worked out. However, my car didn't seem to drive any better than it did when the cross weights were screwed up, so who knows how much it matters anyway.

Posted

that's great!! I would love to see 6 H2 cars over here on the east side this year! I know several guys are building cars but you never know if/when they will get done. This could be a great year for H2 at nats, we might get the 10 needed for the toyo $$

Posted
So ... Erik Woods and I (Scott Brewer) pulled the ballast out of our H4 cars this weekend and joined 4 other H2 cars on the grid to make it a 6-car class. This is sort of a milestone for us as it's been a few years since we've had a single class of HC cars that large here. The great thing is that there are no less than 4 cars that are either complete or being built that should be joining the class for the 2nd half of the season. All of those drivers were present and involved throughout the weekend and I think they came away more motivated than ever to get out there with us. It's conceivable that we could see a double digit car count in H2 by the end of the season, which would make H2 the largest single class in AZ.

Scott that is awesome.

 

I was out there last week and Keith Gillespie from Hasport said he was planning on running H2 with you guys also. Its shaping up to be the class it should always have been.

 

Thawley – who needs to get off his ass and get his car back together

 

PS: Nice move on Erik in the video. Why'd you DNF?

Posted

PS: Nice move on Erik in the video. Why'd you DNF?

 

Thanks. It doesn't show up well in the video, but I was seeing/smelling oil smoke in the car. You can see a little puff come up from under the hood once I stopped. I wanted to shut it down before I caught fire or something. We had 3 car fires in 1 event last weekend. I didn't want to be the 4th. I haven't taken the time yet to even figure out what the problem was. Since that was the last session of the weekend, I just brought it in and parked it on the trailer. I noticed some oil drips on the garage floor yesterday, so I must have a small oil leak somewhere near the tranny. I'm not sweating it since I'm going to be pulling the whole thing apart anyway.

 

Speaking of B20s in H2, I've got a few questions for you.

 

Are you running the 62mm TB and ITR IM? If so, what kind of numbers are you putting down with that thing (unless it's top secret)? Are the stock 240cc injectors enough to keep up with the added air flow? I think my injectors are at like 70% duty cycle right now w/ my 140whp LS motor, so I wasn't sure if I'd be stressing them pretty hard with 20-30 more whp. I could go to RC 330cc injectors, but then I'd be worrying about the fuel pump not keeping up, so maybe I should pick up a 255lph walbro while I'm at it or something. Also, have you found any weak/failure points on the B20 that you'd recommend addressing during the build? You can PM me answers if you don't want to share them on the open forum. Thanks!

 

Edit: Oh yeah, and Keith actually was running with us last weekend (in the yellow CRX in front of me at the start in the vid), but he was running PTB since his car was not quite legal for H2. If you count him, we had actually had 7 H2 cars out. He unfortunately banged up the right front suspension a little on Saturday, which slowed him down, but he said he'll be getting that patched up and throwing a b16a in the car before the next event (or 2) so that he can run as a legal H2 car. We're excited to have him on board with the class. Maybe we can get Brian out there at some point as well.

Posted
Speaking of B20s in H2, I've got a few questions for you.

 

Are you running the 62mm TB and ITR IM? If so, what kind of numbers are you putting down with that thing (unless it's top secret)? Are the stock 240cc injectors enough to keep up with the added air flow? I think my injectors are at like 70% duty cycle right now w/ my 140whp LS motor, so I wasn't sure if I'd be stressing them pretty hard with 20-30 more whp. I could go to RC 330cc injectors, but then I'd be worrying about the fuel pump not keeping up, so maybe I should pick up a 255lph walbro while I'm at it or something. Also, have you found any weak/failure points on the B20 that you'd recommend addressing during the build? You can PM me answers if you don't want to share them on the open forum. Thanks!

Nothing secret about my set up:

• Stock JDM B20 (8.6:1 compression)

• Stock TB (56mm? 58mm?)

• AEM Cold Air Intake

• Hondata S300 (Tuned by Church)

• Tuner Toys 310cc injectors

• Walbro 255 pump (also from Tuner Toys - He's in Phoenix, too)

• Blox Intake Manifold

• DC 4-2-1 header into 2" exhaust

 

There's a dyno chart posted on my blog. The B20 is the yellow line. The red graph is a similarly tuned B16a.

http://roadracegeek.blogspot.com/2007/03/my-mostly-stock-b20-h2-mill.html It was run on a Dynapak, so keep in mind its reading power at the hubs...

 

I'm leaving a lot on the table at the moment. Other than the tune, my engine isn't nearly taking advantage of all that the rules allow. I still need to get it up to 10:1 with the B20z pistons and a few thousandths off the head. I haven't yet match-ported the intake ports. The 2" exhaust is soon to be replaced and I'll go with a 62mm TB as soon as I get a chance.

 

The B20's weakness seems the cylinder walls cracking under extreme cylinder/combustion pressures. But we're talking about boosted or 9000 rpm VTEC-headed engines that are seeing those issues. These conservative H2 builds are a real different animal and there's not a great deal of data about how they'll hold up. I'm optimistic and think that durability is going to be very good with the stock cams. But the minute you start spinning them tight with big cams or a better breathing VTEC head, you're opening yourself up for trouble. I'm hoping that the current engine rules will stay put for durability's sake.

 

The B20s will give up some top end power to the CTR/B16b motors in H2. Only time (and well built/well driven cars) will tell if the class weight rules are appropriate. I think the torque vs. horsepower battle is going to get very interesting in the next few years. I'm going for the torque. But I know some real hot shoes who are going to go with the CTR.

 

We'll see what happens.

Posted

Wow! I'm impressed. I honestly didn't think that thing would be making anywhere near that much power/torque with the smaller TB and lower comp pistons. I'll have to do the calculations, but I think we should be able to mill the head around .020" and still stay within the compression limit even with the 9.6:1 pistons. That's probably what I'll do. It sounds like I should probably pick up some 310cc injectors and a better fuel pump just to be on the safe side. I'll also be using the Blox ITR IM and Hondata (s200). I think my LS tranny with Mugen diff and 4.78 FD should work pretty well with the B20.

 

As for the torque vs hp debate, I'm going with torque all the way. Watch my video again and see how my LS motor pulls against the 2 civic hatchbacks out of turn 9 before the oval section. One of them has a b16a and the other has an ITR motor. Part of it was gearing and getting a better run, but there's no question that I can get off the corners quicker with the mid-range torque. I'm sure some tracks will favor hp, but I have a feeling that the B20 will do very well at our tracks here.

Posted
I'll have to do the calculations, but I think we should be able to mill the head around .020" and still stay within the compression limit even with the 9.6:1 pistons.

Let us know what you come up with. I'm about ready to go thru that drill myself.

 

Thawley

Posted

we had some pretty good battles between the b16a and the GSR this past weekend. the two finish .05 seconds apart.

 

The ITR guys up here are pulling the motors out and going to B20's. It is really hard/almost impossible for them to get to weight for the b18, so they are going with the b20 which will still be a struggle for most

Posted

Jimmy – have you switched to H2 or are you talking about someone else's B16?

Posted

nope I'm still running H4.

 

The b16a car is a Redstone Motors Car driven by William Downey. The GSR car is the Midnight preformance car driven by Tommy Lo.

 

We have a lot of H2 racers up here as well, 6 race on saturday and 5 on sunday.

 

One of the ITR guys is going to pull the motor and drop in a b20, the other is going to just run underpowered in H1, since he doesn't want to run at 2500lbs, last i checked at least.

 

all the info about the H2 cars is in the race report for the race this past weekend, check it out at http://www.westcoasthc.com

Posted

Scott since there is allot of class switching going on in Arizona when ya get some free time if you can shoot me over any new info for the driver profile pages I would appreciate it.

Posted

Will do Mike. I'm on vacation in San Diego for a few days, but I'll get that stuff to you when I get back home.

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