HPDE Questions - Moving Up - Racing Future - Instructor Q's

[dinanm3atl]

Hi guys, long time BMWCCA HPDE participant, as well as other random HPDE's and lots of Auto-X experience. Going to lay out a few questions to see how the whole NASA thing works. Just joined last night so I can run some NASA events and run GTS3 here next year.

 

Experience:

20+ Auto-x Days

2 Day Road America HPDE

2 Day Mid Ohio HPDE

2 Day Road Atlanta HPDE

2 Day Road Atlanta HPDE

2 Day Road Atlanta HPDE

2 Day Road Atlanta HPDE

 

Currently I run BMWCCA Run Group B. In BMWCCA Group A is the highest and D is the lowest. I have been signed off the last two events to run solo.

 

What Group would I be in for NASA? As I read the site and information it sounds like Group 3 would be my level?

 

I am working with the BMWCCA to become an instructor and I hope to be very close. How does one become a NASA instructor? The website is a little vague in that aspect. Do I have to be invited? Do I need to run atleast one even in Group 3 and then simply sign up for instructor clinic? If I have run zero NASA events but my driving experience shows I am ready can I just do the instructor clinic first and foremost? Love to teach so that is my main goal with racing Help others get addicted to the track like me!

 

As I understand anyone in Group 2 and 3 can take passengers over the age of 18? They need an approved helmets/long pants/closed toed shoes. Is this correct?

 

Is there any "classroom" time like with BMWCCA events or is it all track time?

 

Only Group 4 gets assigned an instructor? I don't feel as though I "need" one but getting a 2nd point of view always helps. I know there is a "fee" to request one but can I just take one as a passenger for some extra pointers maybe?

 

Rules/Regs as to seats/harness? I have the 99 M3. For now a 4 point Kirk Bolt in, 6 point Harness(properly mounted). Roll Bar is properly padded per BMWCCA rules. This is all "legal" for NASA events. Both driver and passenger have same restraints(passenger fixed back is a "wide" version so it can accommodate anyone).

 

If I am running in Group 3 then I can apply for the Provisional/Rookie license? Do I need to complete one event in Group 3 before I can do that?

 

Thanks guys! Look forward to participating in events and forum!

[mcolangelo2005]

I just want to start by saying that your e36 is one sexy car!

 

Regarding GTS rules, try this: http://www.gtschallenge.com/rules.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

Your car can also be run in one of the Performance Touring classes.

 

Sorry, can't help with your other Q's. I'm an HPDE3 guy.

[kbrew8991]

alot of that stuff depends on the region - with SE & MA your prior experience would likely land you in HPDE 3 where you'd probably do a few weekends and then sign up to take Instructor Clinic (where you learn the art of instructing ) and you'd go on to instruct from there

 

the race license I just did with SE, might want to do 1-2 HPDE3 weekends and sign up for the Competition School when your car is 100% race tech ready. After passing the Fri school you'd be eligible to run in SE's 3hr Fri Enduros, or the Sat&Sun sprint races. I'm pretty sure MA runs similar, but they might not....

[dinanm3atl]

I am in the SE

 

Thanks for the tips guys.

 

I prefer to run in GTS because my friendly competition is there

 

Thanks for the compliment!

 

Can you better explain the competition setup? If I am 100% race ready I can do the friday "school" and race on Saturday and Sunday? Then I can continue to race where available?

[kbrew8991]

for CS you'll need to have enough experience to please the powers that be, have the car race-ready (cage, fire sys, proper nets, fresh enough seatbelts, etc, etc, etc), and then its a matter of passing CS before you race as a rookie from there on out. At Road Atl I passed CS on Fri, did the last ~40mins in the enduro and raced SpecE30 on Sunday.

 

I'm not sure how much experience they're looking for to let you into CS (I had plenty, ~85hrs with about 40ish of those hours in TT) so it may be worth a quick email to registration to find out

 

also, I'm not sure when the next CS is scheduled for... so you may get stuck in DE3 (which you could bump up into TT for competition if you wanted assuming a satisfactory check-ride from one of us Regional TT Directors) until that time..

[Scott G.]

Some possibly useful notes:

1) You have to request admission into comp school. Most folks have more experience then you before they take comp school. So if you want to get in with limited experience, it might be useful to request a session with one of the senior instructors and explain your intent. Then he can be your advocate when you want to apply for comp school.

 

2) You might be a lot better driver then I am. I'm a rookie so most folks are better then I am. But I had >70 track days before I went to an instructor school and my first comp school. And I think that amount of experience still left me on the junior side of most of the other participants. You need to be comfortable enough that you can drive fast pretty much on automatic reflexes. Because in racing your brain is fairly focused on situational awareness and plotting the demise of the guy in front of you. Driving fast, and the car control that goes with it, has to pretty automatic.

 

3) Most of your questions are going to be answered when you talk to Jim Pantas or his representative at your first SE event. But your hurdles are:

-Make Jim comfortable that you are ready for comp school.

-Ensure your car is ready for inspection.

-Attend and then pass comp school.

 

4) Potentially you could pass a Friday comp school, get your car's "Annual" done and then race a Friday afternoon enduro. That would be better then waiting until Saturday to race. If you do it all on Friday you maximize stress, which is necessary for the Friday night beer to really taste it's best.

 

5) The instructor clinic qualifications are similar to comp school I suppose. Jim needs to approve you attending so you need to create some comfort in him that you are a good candidate. My guess is that you would need to attend several events so that he and the senior instructors get to know you a bit. I don't recall who is in charge of HPDE in the SE region, but he's around here somewhere. Some folks work better with newbies then others. I, for example, work very well with newbies because the fact that we both suck creates instant rappor. But if you don't suck, you have to find your own way to build rappor.

 

So for both comp and instructor, it's not about how many track days you've done. It's about you applying for the school and Jim feeling comfortable with your qualifications. Those qualifications will be a blend of your non-NASA driving history, and your immediate history (driving and also personal relationships) with NASA community.

 

6) I would not expect to immediately be in HPDE3. My suggestion would be to sign up for HPDE2 if it's a track that you know, and HPDE1 if it's a track you don't know. Then ask for a checkride for solo. With the new DE structure I think that there's lots of solo drivers in DE2.

 

7) I thought that only instructors could take passengers, but I might be wrong there.

 

8 ) I'm no expert on seats and harness but your setup looks reasonable.

 

9) Group 1 is newbies with mandatory instructors. Group 4 is instructors and sometimes TT types. There's lots of very experienced and skilled drivers around. Grabbing one of them for some laps is easy. Grabbing an instructor for an informal couple laps is do-able, but not quite as easy because the instructors are pretty darn busy.

 

10) There is mandatory classroom time. It used to be for 1-3. Maybe now it's for 1-2.

Edited March 22, 2008 by Guest

[dinanm3atl]

Thanks for the great response

 

That is what I was looking for!

 

Does anyone know about transferring a provisional license? IE I am running Dec BMWCCA Club Race school. This will give me a BMWCCA Provisional and then have to work from there. I would probably be better off completing the BMWCCA races to get a full blown license and then try and transfer it...

 

I consider myself pretty good

[Scott G.]

A BMWCCA provisional will get you admitted to NASA comp school. But no more then that. If you have a full BMWCCA license and have done numerous races, the Regional NASA rep can give you a provisional license that is good in his region. It depends on your experience level as a racer.

 

Here in the SE there's 4 NASA races for every BMWCCA race. I'd just go ahead and jump right into comp school.

[kbrew8991]

there are alot of racing organizations licenses that directly transfer over (ie SCCA for one..) so your best bet there is to check again with the powers-that-be

 

mostly if its a good quality organization and a full (not rookie) license it just might

[Renntag]

Everything KBrew and Ranger have suggested is spot on. With your short history, Jim may still want you to do a comp school as a formality. I had racing credentials when I started and I had to do a comp school to "prove myself" to the officials. Honestly, it was a great experience.

 

Talk to Jim and he'll set you straight.

 

Best of luck.

 

The 36 looks sweet btw.

[getfast]

 

Experience:

20+ Auto-x Days

2 Day Road America HPDE

2 Day Mid Ohio HPDE

2 Day Road Atlanta HPDE

2 Day Road Atlanta HPDE

2 Day Road Atlanta HPDE

2 Day Road Atlanta HPDE

 

Currently I run BMWCCA Run Group B. In BMWCCA Group A is the highest and D is the lowest. I have been signed off the last two events to run solo.

 

What Group would I be in for NASA? As I read the site and information it sounds like Group 3 would be my level?

 

First off, welcome - and, beautiful car!

 

Secondly, how many of those events you mention above involved passing in corners? This will help determine whether you should start in NASA-SE HPDE2 or 3, as well as how many NASA weekends you might require before being approved to enter a comp school (or instructor clinic for that matter.)

 

All the important stuff has been covered by others but I will add that NASA Mid-Atlantic has a comp school & instructor clinic on Fri Jul 25 at VIR full course if you need another option.

 

Hope it helps, and again, welcome to NASA!

 

Jon

[dinanm3atl]

I will be doing SE events

 

BMWCCA does not do the passing in corners... Not at any event that I have done. Maybe some do but Peachtree BMWCCA sure doesn't. I am not worried about that at all though. I have what I consider excellent track awareness I like to pride myself in knowing what is and is not going on around me.

 

I play by the rules. If I need to do an HPDE2 before I do a 3 before I do Instructor Clinic that is fine I am in for the long haul!

 

Thanks for the compliments I like my car too

 

[getfast]

I'd recommend going into HPDE2 at first, i.e. closest thing to what you're used to, and specifically requesting a check ride to be signed off for HPDE3 - which has in passing in corners. Average minimum timeframe is maybe 4-8 weekends in 3 before being approved for a TT license check ride, instructor clinic, or comp school...

 

Anyway, the NASA-SE gang will definitely take care of ya!

 

Jon

Edit ps- you will need bigger car numbers

[Renntag]

I will be doing SE events

 

Many of us do events with neighboring regions. It wouldnt be unlikely that you may want to come play with Mid-Atlantic in the near future.

 

Regardless, you will enjoy your time with NASA. Have fun.

[getfast]

I only suggested the MA event @ VIR because it puts another possible instr clinic or comp school on his list. Also because it's MA at VIR, a wonderful track and always a great time. Not too far from most SE people either, although I'm guessing the "Atl" in his screen name means Atlanta. So yeah that's not a quick trip. My bad.

 

MA also runs at CMP, which is mostly a SE track... May 3-4.

 

Jon

[Renntag]

Jon, your advice is great. It isnt too far to tow approx 6 hours north to VIR from Atlanta. Its 10 hours for us to tow to CMP and Atlanta isnt much further.

 

VIR is worth the drive regardless for those that havnt been there.

 

Atlanta and VIR are 2 of my favourite tracks on the east coast, there now you can sleep at night.

[dinanm3atl]

The numbers are left over from an event with BMWCCA. Just haven't taken then off.

[Robnie0723]

Very good looking car dinanm3atl, almost looks like it should be in a show rather than the track

[Scott G.]

Is a pretty car. Am envious.