Rain Tires by Toyo????

[ST#97]

Keeping the RA1 as the rain tire is not an option as they will disappear as soon as the R888 is fully integrated into the market.

I would imagine they have already stopped production on the RA1 or soon will...I foresee them getting hard to find shortly so stock up now for the rest of the year!

 

Bob, I sort of suspected something like you said as it looked a little "early" to push off in the wet... bottom line, hope the car wasn't that bad and you got it back together. Who is the driver you have been putting in the car. Don't want to poke fun, just curious...been looking to get paid to drive other people's cars myself! PM me if it's a secret.

 

Matt

[GWalker]

Also, there is just as much chance to get hurt in a dry race as there is in a rain race...if not more.

quote]

 

Are you serious? I saw more badly wrecked/destroyed cars this weekend @ MO then I probably did an entire season last year.

[Sidney]

My thoughts on the Mid-Ohio rain race:

 

Those of you that have race against me at Road America that last two years know I like to race in the wet and have been somewhat sucessful. I've only raced on shaved RA1's. During the 3 hour enduro I co-drove Bob Denton's 67 CMC Firebird on old shaved RA1's and it was scary. (He ran the sprint races on newer shaved RA1's with the same results) The difference in grip in the wet between RA and MO was night and day and I'd say both events had similar temperatures and rainfall. I hydroplaned on the pit straight and spun under the bridge. I was also hydroplaning down the back straight unless I could stay right in someone else's tracks. I felt like a moving chicane the entire time I was on the track.

 

My conclusions: I will have AI legal full tread rain tires for the Nationals and everytime I come back to MO.

 

Sidney

[ST#97]

Are you serious? I saw more badly wrecked/destroyed cars this weekend @ MO then I probably did an entire season last year.

 

YES! we weren't talking about CAR body damage, but bodily harm. Speeds in rain races are lower and have fewer G's at impact. Sure there are more chances to bend a car in the rain, but the discussion was about SOMEONE getting hurt, not their car. Cars get torn up all the time, it's a fact of racing...not a happy fact, but it happens. Biggest issue in the rain is going off in the grass which won't slow you much like you can in the dry before hitting something solid.

 

In our region I have seen much more severe damage in the dry and we have had hardly any contact at all in the rain but our tracks down here have pretty safe run off areas in general and not a lot of armco or concrete.

[stevepoe]

Greg, did you run full tread rain tires? Curious As I've tried the shaved and half shaved in the rain and you can pretty much pitch that ideal. I have to be honest. I was running full tread ra1's this weekend and thought overall it was a very decent tire. I didn't experience any hydroplaning even down the back stretch.. and honestly had more problems with brake lock up then sliding around.

[Flying Fred]

My thoughts on the Mid-Ohio rain race:

 

Those of you that have race against me at Road America that last two years know I like to race in the wet and have been somewhat sucessful. I've only raced on shaved RA1's. During the 3 hour enduro I co-drove Bob Denton's 67 CMC Firebird on old shaved RA1's and it was scary. (He ran the sprint races on newer shaved RA1's with the same results) The difference in grip in the wet between RA and MO was night and day and I'd say both events had similar temperatures and rainfall. I hydroplaned on the pit straight and spun under the bridge. I was also hydroplaning down the back straight unless I could stay right in someone else's tracks. I felt like a moving chicane the entire time I was on the track.

 

My conclusions: I will have AI legal full tread rain tires for the Nationals and everytime I come back to MO.

 

Sidney

Good comments Sid. Having run the same "cold rain" Road America race in Oct 06 as you, I concur about the grip factor. I can find places to safely get around RA, but Mid-O in the rain scared the crap out of Ted and I in the enduro. Between bad rain tires and a fogging windshield, we quit before destroying the Panoz. I got too close to the apex in T5 (possibly some oil there as well) and spun 180 driver's right but did not contact the wall. Same spot the Miller 6 car went off Sunday, but I was luckier. (BTW Mickey, are you SURE they weren't on the Hoosier wets Sunday??? I was over in their garages at lunch and saw them all stacked up there.)

 

Good thread about Toyo rains too Greg. Since I'm AIX, I have the freedom to run Hoosier wets and used an old pair Sunday, but they were far better than what I had on Saturday. That was an interesting since we started dry, then turned into a skating rink half way through the race. Somehow the "just finish the race" thought paid off as through attrition and a DQ, I ended up winning. Go figure?

[JWL]

Guys-

 

I don't know how many more times I can say it, but we'll keep observing the R888 performance and make adjustments accordingly. Picking fights here over who can and can't drive in the rain does zero good and it's a fact that racing in the rain on any tire is difficult when you're hauling the mail. This thread reminds me of two experiences-one at MO in the Sentra and one at Sears Point in the Mustang.

 

With the Mustang, I decided it would be brilliant to slap on some near M+S "Super Kimchi" street tires to deal with the rain that was forecasted for the weekend. I thought this was clever as AIX is open tire and I could select the finest rain tire that Les Schwab had on his shelves. What I found out, much to my chagrin, was that my AI colleagues on full depth RA1's were doing better than I was and that the M+S hot setup tires were better used to hold blown up motors in the bed of the pickup. I slapped the Hoosiers back on the car, softened the setup significantly, and went back out to do much better in the next session. So, the "magic" rain tires might be better but then again let's not discount the importance of pressure, setup, and line.

 

With the Sentra at MO, I was on full tread RA1's again and elected to go out in pouring rain just to get some time on the car. I adjusted pressures, lost the swaybars, and most importantly, slowed down and drove the wet line as explained to me by one of the MO instructors. I was having a ball learning the wet line until I realized I was the only guy out there because everyone else had gone in and figured it was mean to keep the corner marshals on station in the downpour for my personal jollies. We've also had scores of rain races in the past on RA1's and this quite honestly is one of the first times I've ever heard that they were worse than any other tire in the sloppy stuff. Moral of this story-the RA1's are fine in the rain at full depth if you adjust and slow down. Driving a high HP, rear drive car in the rain is going to be a challenge no matter what tire is on the car so keep that in mind before we completely throw the Toyos under the bus.

 

To end, let's try to keep our heads here and avoid the usual Black Helicopter panic that seems to follow any proposed rule change or new equipment switchover. As I said, we'll watch how the new tires work in both wet and dry and adjust to make the best choice for the series. I also urge each and every one of you to come in and get the heck off the track if you feel unsafe at any time. Wadding up a car or getting hurt isn't worth it for a piece of wood or plastic that will end up holding up the short end of your shop bench ten years from now.

 

-JWL

[GWalker]

Steve Poe: Good to meet you too this weekend, I will tell you everything about my car on Sunday

Full tread RA-1

No sway bar

tire pressure 30-32 cold

3300 lbs @345 HP (Dyno acted weird with me this weekend. My engine likes cold weather)

Feel free to offer suggestions

 

JWL: Just curious, since we can't run the R888 until next year (except for practice, is that right?), how are you watching the results? Is Toyo providing you guys with some testing results or something?

 

Parting comments: Maybe I suck in the rain or maybe M/O sucks in the rain or maybe I missed something crucial in my setup. But I trust our leaders to make the best decision and I think this topic is important enough to be brought up again later. It is just that other than a 24 hour enduro I did last year during a night shift in the fog, I have never had to work so hard to maintain control where I think a different tire could bring more options to the driver to avoid problems on track, which results in a more safer enviroment for everyone. This weekend, there was not too many options available because you really could not upset the car at all. I'm glad I won, but I would rather I won without having to change my pants after the race

Thanks for listening to me wine.

[ST#97]

question about the surface at MO...having never been there myself.

 

knowing the track was recently repaved in the last 24 months, what is the surface made of? I realize asphalt, but there are different types that have hugely varying traction when wet. At TWS we have 3 kinds of asphalt...30 year old rough stuff, polished old stuff mixed with some new patches of GOOD stuff and there are some areas with "sealant" on them that are down right DEADLY when wet. could it just be the surface at MO isn't very rain friendly? We had a similar issue in Houston with sealant that was oily when it got over 90 degrees and they somehow stripped it all off and fixed a BIG problem.

 

Maybe the oil is coming up out the asphalt when wet since the track is so new...?

 

Would be cool to get some response to plan ahead for September.

 

Thanks!

[Red Tornado]

JWL, the calming voice of reason

[JWL]

Greg-

 

What we're watching is the other series heading to R888's in NASA this year and then other series already on the tires here in the U.S. and abroad. We do have a direct line open to Toyo and have made them aware of the NASA racers' concerns so that they can also do some detective work that will help us make sure our series are OK on the R888 when the time comes. We have done some in-house testing with the Hondas already and we're working on venues to do more testing on the heavier RWD cars in the coming months. The last thing I want is wrecked cars and unhappy folks, so we'll keep watching and adjusting as needed.

 

Thanks.

 

-JWL

[ST#97]

Greg-

 

What we're watching is the other series heading to R888's in NASA this year and then other series already on the tires here in the U.S. and abroad. We do have a direct line open to Toyo and have made them aware of the NASA racers' concerns so that they can also do some detective work that will help us make sure our series are OK on the R888 when the time comes. We have done some in-house testing with the Hondas already and we're working on venues to do more testing on the heavier RWD cars in the coming months. The last thing I want is wrecked cars and unhappy folks, so we'll keep watching and adjusting as needed.

 

Thanks.

 

-JWL

 

You can send a set of 4 R888's this way and I will gladly do some back to back testing with RA1's and write you 10 pages of comparison data with Data Acquisition if you would like... Same wheels, same everything...

[Mystic_Cobra]

So, has the decision been made on whether there is any transition period OR are we required to race on RA1s in 08 and R888s in 09 in AI regardless of dry or wet

[robbodleimages]

So, has the decision been made on whether there is any transition period OR are we required to race on RA1s in 08 and R888s in 09 in AI regardless of dry or wet

 

I see no sign of a transition period. I suggest running an enduro or something.

[philstireservice]

275/40R17 Hoosier DOT HWET $271 ea.

[robbodleimages]

275/40R17 Hoosier DOT HWET $271 ea.

 

Are you saying that the hoosier wet is the AI spec rain for next season?

[pederb]

Only in AIX

[philstireservice]

275/40R17 Hoosier DOT HWET $271 ea.

 

Are you saying that the hoosier wet is the AI spec rain for next season?

 

 

Noooooo...Now where did that come from???

 

Someone in the thread asked what the price was......