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Qualifying procedure....


Falcon

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Jim,

 

This has probably been discussed before, but as you know, the line starts forming for qualifying pretty early and it seems like there'd be a better way. It's getting so bad, I wouldn't be surprised to see staging for qualifying begin the night before.

 

So, I was wondering if you'd thought about maybe staging cars for qualifying based on practice times?

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  • tripedee

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kbrew8991

ahh, look at the racers trying to copy the TTers

 

that is a pretty good idea if grid and T&S wants to handle the extra work

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Fred Crawford

Falcon,, I thought Ken was gone

Anyway, PCA does it at times. I asked for this last year but told to much for grid workers. I don't understand , honor system, look at practice sheet see your spot go to it,,,,

 

Fc

ABC

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Z06RACER

I can't for the life of me figure out why a car that is clearly 20+ seconds/lap slower then the fastest car want to be at the front of the field in qualifying???? Each driver knows ABOUT where he is going to fit in on the grid, pull into that approximate location when qualifying.

 

Speaking of qualifying>>>>>>what is the big deal about having a double yellow flag on the first lap of qualifying???? Especially on sunday when there is no practice session before the qualifier. There were 59 cars in our group.....I went out as slow as I could go and was all the way in turn 8 when my crew said the last car was out of the pits. I caught those cars by turn 3 of the first lap and never had a clear lap after that.

They talked in the drivers meeting about getting this changed. How do we do that????

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gimpstang

The double yellow is to allow the drivers to scrub their tires. The rules prohibit tire scrubbing on a green outlap so some (im not sure who) started asking for full course cautions.

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This is my first year racing so my opinion may not be worth too much, but here goes...

I think the double yellow first lap is good, when we haven't been on track for a session before qualifying.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if we set qualifying positions by practice times, won't we end up with the same problems in practice. I like having to work in qualilfying to get clean track and a good lap. So far it's been about 50/50 for me, it worked out on Sat but not on Sun? This is kind of like the trrack time issues too. We'll always have tons of traffic at RRR, just like we always have track time issues at RA.

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.....I went out as slow as I could go and was all the way in turn 8 when my crew said the last car was out of the pits. I caught those cars by turn 3 of the first lap and never had a clear lap after that...

 

Having watch you run some on Saturday and Sunday I think that they could give the rest of the field a two lap advantage and you would still lap the field and win. Watching Fred and Jody race as always been fun but watching you run was something else. You and your car are exciting to watch.

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FandangoDrew

We do need to address the lining up three seasons early for qualifying, AND the most aggressive driving I saw all weekend was at the blend of the lanes going on to grid, and yes before someone else points it out I am a guilty as anyone but this is the game that must be played to qualify well under the rules as they stand. Pulling up to the gate when the group before is still on grid did become a real traffic problem at RRR and could be a safety issue.

 

I do believe that this will not be a problem at BMP because I think the BMP employees will send you back to your pit area if you try to line up anywhere outside of grid (or below the tower) when the grid is still full of the group before yours.

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Z06RACER
The double yellow is to allow the drivers to scrub their tires. The rules prohibit tire scrubbing on a green outlap so some (im not sure who) started asking for full course cautions.

 

I know all this I"M ASKING FOR THE FIRST LAP TO BE DOUBLE YELLOW!!

so you can scrub in NEW tires, or at least get your tires hot before you go out 10/10ths. so they can get everybody out of the pits before cars are already around the track and bearing down on the last guys out. A 15 minute qualifying session is more then enough time to get a fast lap....so I'm suggesting lets start each qualifer under yellow not green.

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Z06RACER

 

I do believe that this will not be a problem at BMP because I think the BMP employees will send you back to your pit area if you try to line up anywhere outside of grid (or below the tower) when the grid is still full of the group before yours.

 

NOPE!!!!!!!!!!! They stack 'em up at BMP as well!!!!

 

Having watch you run some on Saturday and Sunday I think that they could give the rest of the field a two lap advantage and you would still lap the field and win. Watching Fred and Jody race as always been fun but watching you run was something else. You and your car are exciting to watch.

 

THANKS!!!!!!! it is a hell of a car!

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StraightSix

It would be possible for us in T & S to create a grid sheet for qualifying. It wouldn't be that difficult.

 

Something else to consider, though, is that not every registered racer goes out for the practice sessions. That ends up creating an issue for the grid people, because there might be 10+ cars that aren't on the grid sheet for the qualifying session.

 

Also, how would a grid be established for Sunday? Since there isn't a practice on Sunday, would we want to base a grid on the practice session from the day before?

 

I'm all for doing things that will make everyone's weekend more enjoyable, while at the same time making sure that our workers aren't over burdened.

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FandangoDrew

 

I do believe that this will not be a problem at BMP because I think the BMP employees will send you back to your pit area if you try to line up anywhere outside of grid (or below the tower) when the grid is still full of the group before yours.

 

NOPE!!!!!!!!!!! They stack 'em up at BMP as well!!!!

 

 

Well maybe we need a rule about not stacking them up.... like: you can't stack up cars outside of grid while the group(s) before yours are still on grid.... maybe?

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kbrew8991
but if we set qualifying positions by practice times, won't we end up with the same problems in practice.

 

that was an initial concern of mine when we started doing that with TT, but you'd be surprised

 

of course since then we've gone to gridding the first session by class so

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It would be possible for us in T & S to create a grid sheet for qualifying. It wouldn't be that difficult.

 

Something else to consider, though, is that not every registered racer goes out for the practice sessions. That ends up creating an issue for the grid people, because there might be 10+ cars that aren't on the grid sheet for the qualifying session.

 

I'm one of those who doesn't always go out for the practice lap, but if this were the new priocedure, I'd go out.

 

Also, how would a grid be established for Sunday? Since there isn't a practice on Sunday, would we want to base a grid on the practice session from the day before?

 

 

Use Saturday's qualifying times as grid positions for Sunday's qualifying.

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robbodleimages
I can't for the life of me figure out why a car that is clearly 20+ seconds/lap slower then the fastest car want to be at the front of the field in qualifying???? Each driver knows ABOUT where he is going to fit in on the grid, pull into that approximate location when qualifying.

 

Speaking of qualifying>>>>>>what is the big deal about having a double yellow flag on the first lap of qualifying???? Especially on sunday when there is no practice session before the qualifier. There were 59 cars in our group.....I went out as slow as I could go and was all the way in turn 8 when my crew said the last car was out of the pits. I caught those cars by turn 3 of the first lap and never had a clear lap after that.

They talked in the drivers meeting about getting this changed. How do we do that????

 

Now, see....After running Saturday's qualifying in the middle of the pack and passing or getting passed each lap, I figured to try something different. Since the front of the grid was out of the question because I didnt want to sit in the car for two hours, I thought I would go out tail end Charlie. Hang back and make a run at getting my lap on the first full hot lap.

 

Failed strategery. As Bob mentions I wasn't in the first turn before I saw a yellow world challenge car in my mirror. Thought, "idiot. out smarted yourself again".

 

I will say this, I am not sure I want to have to qualify for qualifying. If it has to be that way, I guess I would go along with it. As a rule I run the enduro or friday practice(seat time) and don't run but a leak/brake check on the Saturday first session. I ran two laps in the first session Saturday.

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If you really want to fix Qualifying then lengthen it! make it a half hour long so that everyone doesn't go out at the same time, Kinda like other orginations do! that way I can sit under my tent untill the last minute!

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Fred Crawford

The idea was ( drivers voted ) because of a 10 minute qualifyer.... we wanted to go out green , to try and get an extra lap. 20 minute qualifyer Im ok witrh a yellow start, don't think we need it , but ok by me.

 

Fc

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kbrew8991
If you really want to fix Qualifying then lengthen it! make it a half hour long so that everyone doesn't go out at the same time, Kinda like other orginations do! that way I can sit under my tent untill the last minute!

 

where is the time going to come from? (choices: practice or the race)

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Keith Andrews

This is all new to me as a first year racer.

 

As I watched my group for the most part it seems like everyone raced as well as they qualified. Other than someone that has car trouble the qualifiying seemed to represent how people ran in the race.

 

Some people don't use all the time available, some use all the time they can.

 

As for slower cars going out early under green, my thought is they are going out slow anyways to warm things up so it doesn't bother them to make room for faster cars to pass. Once they are warmed up and ready they are in a better postition to gauge track and traffic for there quailfying run. Double yellow start with reference to practice times gets my vote.

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FandangoDrew
This is all new to me as a first year racer.

 

As I watched my group for the most part it seems like everyone raced as well as they qualified. Other than someone that has car trouble the qualifiying seemed to represent how people ran in the race.

 

Some people don't use all the time available, some use all the time they can.

 

As for slower cars going out early under green, my thought is they are going out slow anyways to warm things up so it doesn't bother them to make room for faster cars to pass. Once they are warmed up and ready they are in a better postition to gauge track and traffic for there quailfying run. Double yellow start with reference to practice times gets my vote.

I agree with Keith that qualifying itself works fairly well green or yellow first lap really i don't care

 

The big problem as I see it is the pre grid mess -

Well maybe we need a rule about not stacking them up.... like: you can't stack up cars outside of grid while the group(s) before yours are still on grid.... maybe?

 

Its so simple it just might work

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If you really want to fix Qualifying then lengthen it! make it a half hour long so that everyone doesn't go out at the same time, Kinda like other orginations do! that way I can sit under my tent untill the last minute!

 

Great idea! Then the races can be 10 minutes long

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Sat practice: grouped by class

Sat qualifying: practice order; people that didn't practice at the back.

Sunday qualifying: Sat quali order; people that didn't qualify at the back.

 

Going out to yellow to warm up doesn't make much sense. Tires warm up much faster if you just start driving. That being said, I don't really care as long as it is clear and consistent every time.

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Fred Crawford
OR,

 

What about one qualifying session on Saturday that is longer and counts for both races?

 

Discuss.

 

What if had mechanical trouble , or set up was wrong on Sat,,, it would screw up Sunday.

Fc

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Sat practice: grouped by class

Sat qualifying: practice order; people that didn't practice at the back.

Sunday qualifying: Sat quali order; people that didn't qualify at the back.

 

Going out to yellow to warm up doesn't make much sense. Tires warm up much faster if you just start driving. That being said, I don't really care as long as it is clear and consistent every time.

 

Wise is he, far he will go.

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