LMan 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 OR, What about one qualifying session on Saturday that is longer and counts for both races? Discuss. ..and add the extra time to the Sunday sprint race? hmmmm ..however, this would preclude car changes b/w Sat and Sun that might improve Sun qualifying. Im sure someone would complain about that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kbrew8991 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 (edited) Sat practice: grouped by classSat qualifying: practice order; people that didn't practice at the back. Sunday qualifying: Sat quali order; people that didn't qualify at the back. Going out to yellow to warm up doesn't make much sense. Tires warm up much faster if you just start driving. That being said, I don't really care as long as it is clear and consistent every time. thats worked well for other run groups if grid can handle the workload.... the more sessions you guys have the easier the schedule is to make however, you guys are needed to give instructors time to run between students and their own cars Edited May 21, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robbodleimages 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Three sessions on Saturday and only one on Sunday? We could always draw for starting positions on Saturday and line up Sunday how we finished on Saturday. Only two sessions required. Here's my idea. Saturday group by class. Take the best time from either of the first two sessions. Sunday grid based on finishing order and run a qualifying race to set the Sunday grid. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
2k2s2k 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Sat practice: grouped by classSat qualifying: practice order; people that didn't practice at the back. Sunday qualifying: Sat quali order; people that didn't qualify at the back. how about Sunday qualifying by Sat race finish position Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fred Crawford 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Again, why not by practice time each morning, look on practice sheet and go to the cone with the corresponding number, pull in there. Fc ABC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mberglo 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Sat practice: grouped by classSat qualifying: practice order; people that didn't practice at the back. Sunday qualifying: Sat quali order; people that didn't qualify at the back. I ran TT for the last couple of years, and this is how we did it. It works wonderfully. Grouping by class the first time out is the best you can do, and works surprisingly well. Then, you use the best time from then on. Before Ken and crew implemented this plan, we randomly gridded, we had a very difficult time finding clean laps. When we gridded by best time, there was very little passing being done and lots of fast track for everyone. I strongly suggest this approach for the qualifying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tripedee 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 What Skeen said. I'm not worried about the guy in front of me 2 seconds slower than me. I'm worried about 20 guys if front 20 seconds slower than me. For the life of me, I don't understand why the slower cars get in front. No yellow on q sessions. If you make them 10-12 minutes, make them more organized with times based on practice. No practice, no q grid and you start from the back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kbrew8991 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 full course yellow doesn't mean go slow btw, if you guys are gridded by practice times you can pace yourselves at a somewhat spirited pace (70-80%) which will not string out the field too much AND not waste too much time either, plus you're FCY so those guys that want to scrub tires can scrub tires (if they can keep up with the cars ahead that is) win-win-win Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Author Share Posted May 21, 2008 For the life of me, I don't understand why the slower cars get in front. Pat, I think every car, regardless of class, grids as close to the front as possible to prevent a class competitor from getting a better qualification grid position. They know they will get run over by the faster cars behind them, but they don't want to give any advantage to their competition. Myself, I want to get out and get as clean a lap as quickly as possible and then get off the track. The longer I have to stay out, the higher the risk of something going wrong, and adding to the clutter. Segregating us into classes on q grid would help immensely. Maybe we'll just have to do it voluntary. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tripedee 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I don't like tire scrubbing in q sessions. I believe in getting a decent lap and then get off the track. My best q sessions have been as few as 3 laps. I just think some people will always think yellow flag=SLOW. But that's just me. I'll speak my peace, then follow the rules. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tripedee 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I agree with you Jody... to a point. As long as qualifying doesn't become a race with folks using race tactics to not let a class competitor get in a good lap. Maybe grid by class and practice time. And folks with no practice time grid at the back of their class and not the back of the pack? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kbrew8991 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I agree with you Jody... to a point. As long as qualifying doesn't become a race with folks using race tactics to not let a class competitor get in a good lap. You'd better tell Jim to stop teaching that in Comp School then... their is specific language against this for TT, but not in any of the race rules Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AU N EGL 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Bribes ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Varkwso 0 Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 Bribes ? that works well for TT.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Z06RACER 0 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I am totally confused why going out in a qualifying session under yellow is a big deal. With a 15 minute qualifying session say the out lap and in lap burn up 5 minutes, that leaves 10 minutes for you to get a qualifying lap in. If your car turns lap in the 1:30's you should get about 7 laps. Of the 50 + cars in thunder all but 11 turned their quickest laps 1-4, I think only four turned it on lap 7. Either way 10 ACTUAL minutes of time is MORE then you need. I know for myself; if I haven't turned my quickest lap in 1-3, I probably won't get anything quicker. Sometimes, i'll do 2 laps, come in, let the car cool down, let some people come off the track and try one more flyer. But 9 times out of ten I've turned the fastest lap already. But to go out early on sunday morning, on a cold track, with brand new tires on a green track is just asking for trouble. And ..if a car goes off and they have to red/black flag the session then everybody loses. WHAT IS THE DOWNSIDE OF GOING OUT YELLLOW?????????????? You'll lose, what, maybe one lap???Big deal. If you're out here just to do laps, fine, sign up for HPDE and knock yourself out. As far as gridding is concerned; when I race in the SCCA I race in a group that has GT1 cars in it. The fastest are sometimes 10 sec/lap faster then me. If I get to the grid before they do, I pull in about 6 cars back and wave them to the front when they arrive. The last thing I want to worry about when I'm qualifying is those guys trying to get around me!! Just my $.02. Now back to your regularly scheduled program. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Members Jim P. 0 Posted May 22, 2008 Members Share Posted May 22, 2008 Guys, This is all a healthy discussion but I remember Tom asking the racers to vote in the Racer's meeting whether they wanted to go out to a green track or a FCY - and it was a clear 75% wanted the green track. I'll agree that there are advantages to each, and I will tell you that both days I went out 10 mins* into the 20 min qualifying session and had clean track for 4-5 laps so you don't necessarily have to go out first, just have to wait until all the other racers get their fast laps in and return to the paddock *it was totally by accident, both times I was caught up doing assorted event duties and was running late - I even started the sat. race 15 mins late! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kbrew8991 0 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Jim, there is alot more to this discussion than FCY or Green for Qualifying Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mberglo 0 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Jim, there is alot more to this discussion than FCY or Green for Qualifying Jim was caught up doing other things and joined this discussion late.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fred Crawford 0 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Jim, there is alot more to this discussion than FCY or Green for Qualifying I thought you were gone Fc Hugs and All Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tripedee 0 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I would still like to see a discussion on the possibility of griding by time in q sessions. I would think griding by time and class may be too much to ask for the grid workers, but maybe just time? I agree that some people let faster cars by and some people run yellow laps at a good speed and some people watch the corner workers for when the track goes green and stop scrubbing their tires at that time. The problem is, it just take a few to cause problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
StraightSix 0 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I would still like to see a discussion on the possibility of griding by time in q sessions. I would think griding by time and class may be too much to ask for the grid workers, but maybe just time?I agree that some people let faster cars by and some people run yellow laps at a good speed and some people watch the corner workers for when the track goes green and stop scrubbing their tires at that time. The problem is, it just take a few to cause problems. If you guys want to grid by just practice time, then that should be very easy. The practice results that we print are ordered by time. Simply check the number next your name and then pull into the grid space with the cone corresponding to the number on the results sheet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tripedee 0 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Sounds like a plan to me! I guess we need to talk about it at the racers meeting, then go for it! If for whatever reason folks aren't in the practice session, then 1st come 1st served. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fred Crawford 0 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Falcon,, I thought Ken was gone Anyway, PCA does it at times. I asked for this last year but told to much for grid workers. I don't understand , honor system, look at practice sheet see your spot go to it,,,, Fc ABC I Said that 5 pages ago........ Fc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tripedee 0 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Well, that makes a quarem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Members Jim P. 0 Posted May 23, 2008 Members Share Posted May 23, 2008 Jim, there is alot more to this discussion than FCY or Green for Qualifying Jim was caught up doing other things and joined this discussion late.... You got that right! Luckily I am only 50 emails behind at the moment*, I get nervous when I get over 100 unread emails in my inbox! If T&S says that they can do it and Grid is ok with it then it's fine with me... I would say that everyone should grid based on their practice times and anyone who gets to grid in the last 5 mins has to take whatever slots are left. Food for thought: If we have a full field of cars and everyone goes out to qualify and everyone is affected by traffic and yet everyone pretty much ends up in the same position on grid for the race relative to their average speed/laptimes then does it matter whether you got clean laps in qualifying? *I am hoping to get caught up sometime around September! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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