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Qualifying procedure....


Falcon

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OR,

 

What about one qualifying session on Saturday that is longer and counts for both races?

 

Discuss.

 

..and add the extra time to the Sunday sprint race?

hmmmm

 

..however, this would preclude car changes b/w Sat and Sun that might improve Sun qualifying. Im sure someone would complain about that.

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  • tripedee

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kbrew8991
Sat practice: grouped by class

Sat qualifying: practice order; people that didn't practice at the back.

Sunday qualifying: Sat quali order; people that didn't qualify at the back.

 

Going out to yellow to warm up doesn't make much sense. Tires warm up much faster if you just start driving. That being said, I don't really care as long as it is clear and consistent every time.

 

thats worked well for other run groups if grid can handle the workload....

 

the more sessions you guys have the easier the schedule is to make however, you guys are needed to give instructors time to run between students and their own cars

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robbodleimages

Three sessions on Saturday and only one on Sunday? We could always draw for starting positions on Saturday and line up Sunday how we finished on Saturday. Only two sessions required.

 

Here's my idea. Saturday group by class. Take the best time from either of the first two sessions. Sunday grid based on finishing order and run a qualifying race to set the Sunday grid.

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Sat practice: grouped by class

Sat qualifying: practice order; people that didn't practice at the back.

Sunday qualifying: Sat quali order; people that didn't qualify at the back.

 

how about Sunday qualifying by Sat race finish position

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Fred Crawford

Again,

why not by practice time each morning, look on practice sheet and go to the cone with the corresponding number, pull in there.

 

Fc

ABC

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Sat practice: grouped by class

Sat qualifying: practice order; people that didn't practice at the back.

Sunday qualifying: Sat quali order; people that didn't qualify at the back.

 

 

I ran TT for the last couple of years, and this is how we did it. It works wonderfully. Grouping by class the first time out is the best you can do, and works surprisingly well. Then, you use the best time from then on. Before Ken and crew implemented this plan, we randomly gridded, we had a very difficult time finding clean laps. When we gridded by best time, there was very little passing being done and lots of fast track for everyone. I strongly suggest this approach for the qualifying.

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tripedee

What Skeen said.

I'm not worried about the guy in front of me 2 seconds slower than me. I'm worried about 20 guys if front 20 seconds slower than me. For the life of me, I don't understand why the slower cars get in front.

No yellow on q sessions. If you make them 10-12 minutes, make them more organized with times based on practice. No practice, no q grid and you start from the back.

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kbrew8991

full course yellow doesn't mean go slow btw, if you guys are gridded by practice times you can pace yourselves at a somewhat spirited pace (70-80%) which will not string out the field too much AND not waste too much time either, plus you're FCY so those guys that want to scrub tires can scrub tires (if they can keep up with the cars ahead that is)

 

win-win-win

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For the life of me, I don't understand why the slower cars get in front.

 

Pat, I think every car, regardless of class, grids as close to the front as possible to prevent a class competitor from getting a better qualification grid position. They know they will get run over by the faster cars behind them, but they don't want to give any advantage to their competition.

 

Myself, I want to get out and get as clean a lap as quickly as possible and then get off the track. The longer I have to stay out, the higher the risk of something going wrong, and adding to the clutter.

 

Segregating us into classes on q grid would help immensely. Maybe we'll just have to do it voluntary.

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tripedee

I don't like tire scrubbing in q sessions. I believe in getting a decent lap and then get off the track. My best q sessions have been as few as 3 laps. I just think some people will always think yellow flag=SLOW.

But that's just me. I'll speak my peace, then follow the rules.

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tripedee

I agree with you Jody... to a point. As long as qualifying doesn't become a race with folks using race tactics to not let a class competitor get in a good lap. Maybe grid by class and practice time. And folks with no practice time grid at the back of their class and not the back of the pack?

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kbrew8991
I agree with you Jody... to a point. As long as qualifying doesn't become a race with folks using race tactics to not let a class competitor get in a good lap.

 

You'd better tell Jim to stop teaching that in Comp School then...

 

their is specific language against this for TT, but not in any of the race rules

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Z06RACER

I am totally confused why going out in a qualifying session under yellow is a big deal. With a 15 minute qualifying session say the out lap and in lap burn up 5 minutes, that leaves 10 minutes for you to get a qualifying lap in. If your car turns lap in the 1:30's you should get about 7 laps. Of the 50 + cars in thunder all but 11 turned their quickest laps 1-4, I think only four turned it on lap 7. Either way 10 ACTUAL minutes of time is MORE then you need. I know for myself; if I haven't turned my quickest lap in 1-3, I probably won't get anything quicker. Sometimes, i'll do 2 laps, come in, let the car cool down, let some people come off the track and try one more flyer. But 9 times out of ten I've turned the fastest lap already.

But to go out early on sunday morning, on a cold track, with brand new tires on a green track is just asking for trouble. And ..if a car goes off and they have to red/black flag the session then everybody loses.

WHAT IS THE DOWNSIDE OF GOING OUT YELLLOW??????????????

You'll lose, what, maybe one lap???Big deal. If you're out here just to do laps, fine, sign up for HPDE and knock yourself out.

As far as gridding is concerned; when I race in the SCCA I race in a group that has GT1 cars in it. The fastest are sometimes 10 sec/lap faster then me. If I get to the grid before they do, I pull in about 6 cars back and wave them to the front when they arrive. The last thing I want to worry about when I'm qualifying is those guys trying to get around me!!

 

Just my $.02. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

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Guys,

This is all a healthy discussion but I remember Tom asking the racers to vote in the Racer's meeting whether they wanted to go out to a green track or a FCY - and it was a clear 75% wanted the green track. I'll agree that there are advantages to each, and I will tell you that both days I went out 10 mins* into the 20 min qualifying session and had clean track for 4-5 laps so you don't necessarily have to go out first, just have to wait until all the other racers get their fast laps in and return to the paddock

 

*it was totally by accident, both times I was caught up doing assorted event duties and was running late - I even started the sat. race 15 mins late!

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Jim, there is alot more to this discussion than FCY or Green for Qualifying

 

Jim was caught up doing other things and joined this discussion late....

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Fred Crawford
Jim, there is alot more to this discussion than FCY or Green for Qualifying

 

 

I thought you were gone

 

 

Fc

Hugs and All

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tripedee

I would still like to see a discussion on the possibility of griding by time in q sessions. I would think griding by time and class may be too much to ask for the grid workers, but maybe just time?

I agree that some people let faster cars by and some people run yellow laps at a good speed and some people watch the corner workers for when the track goes green and stop scrubbing their tires at that time. The problem is, it just take a few to cause problems.

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StraightSix
I would still like to see a discussion on the possibility of griding by time in q sessions. I would think griding by time and class may be too much to ask for the grid workers, but maybe just time?

I agree that some people let faster cars by and some people run yellow laps at a good speed and some people watch the corner workers for when the track goes green and stop scrubbing their tires at that time. The problem is, it just take a few to cause problems.

 

If you guys want to grid by just practice time, then that should be very easy. The practice results that we print are ordered by time. Simply check the number next your name and then pull into the grid space with the cone corresponding to the number on the results sheet.

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tripedee

Sounds like a plan to me! I guess we need to talk about it at the racers meeting, then go for it! If for whatever reason folks aren't in the practice session, then 1st come 1st served.

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Fred Crawford
Falcon,, I thought Ken was gone

Anyway, PCA does it at times. I asked for this last year but told to much for grid workers. I don't understand , honor system, look at practice sheet see your spot go to it,,,,

 

Fc

ABC

 

 

I Said that 5 pages ago........

 

Fc

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Jim, there is alot more to this discussion than FCY or Green for Qualifying

Jim was caught up doing other things and joined this discussion late....

You got that right! Luckily I am only 50 emails behind at the moment*, I get nervous when I get over 100 unread emails in my inbox!

 

If T&S says that they can do it and Grid is ok with it then it's fine with me... I would say that everyone should grid based on their practice times and anyone who gets to grid in the last 5 mins has to take whatever slots are left.

 

Food for thought: If we have a full field of cars and everyone goes out to qualify and everyone is affected by traffic and yet everyone pretty much ends up in the same position on grid for the race relative to their average speed/laptimes then does it matter whether you got clean laps in qualifying?

 

*I am hoping to get caught up sometime around September!

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