cwbaader Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Mark, is there a form to submit for a dyno protest? Thanks, Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmw22 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Chuck, There is no GTS protest form. Protest are done according to NASA rules: 17.5 Protests, Request for Action, and Appeals 17.5.1 Protests Any entered driver may lodge a protest against another driver disputing the mechanical compliance of their competition vehicle. To lodge a protest, the protestor shall obtain a “Protest Form” from Registration, fill it out, and file it, along with the appropriate fee, with the Race Director. The Race Director may accept the protest, may extend the time allowed, or may reject the protest. For the protest to be valid, it must meet the following conditions: 1. Be filed within thirty (30) minutes of the completion of the race. 2. Each part that is being protested must be named specifically. 3. Each part may be considered a separate protest, in terms of fees. 4. Each part listed shall be accompanied by the rule(s) number that it violates. 5. The title of the rulebook must be cited with each rule number. 6. Accepted by the Race Director. The Race Director reserves the right to modify these rules as cited in CCR section #21.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Weaver Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Heard there was a fast GTS2 BMW at Robeling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Mark, is there a form to submit for a dyno protest? Thanks, Chuck It is my understanding that neither the dyno nor the scales may be protested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Mark, is there a form to submit for a dyno protest? Thanks, Chuck It is my understanding that neither the dyno nor the scales may be protested. Here is what the GTS Challenge Rules State: http://gtschallenge.com/rules2.htm -Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 My bad. I thought you wanted to protest the accuracy of the dyno. The procedure mentioned above using NASA forms is used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 By the way, are the correct updated rules posted on the NASA site? The NASA site rules are dated 2007. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbm3 Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 By the way, are the correct updated rules posted on the NASA site? The NASA site rules are dated 2007. Jim, Are you refering to the NASA rules or the GTS rules ? I looked at both and both are the 2008 version. The GTS Rules were dated Nov. 2007 as that's when they were finalized for 2008. Cheers, Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwbaader Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 Jason, when a supposedly GTS2 E36 can run with a C Mod CCA car all the way up the front straight, I have no doubt there is noncompliance. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdigel Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 who was the c mod car there??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwbaader Posted May 26, 2008 Author Share Posted May 26, 2008 Werner Stark....GTS3 .. May have been D Mod. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmw22 Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Chuck, Talk to Chuck Ellis. Have him talk to the guy. It's too late to protest now, but see if you can get the guy to get the car re-dynoed. Try and get it worked out before the next event. Did anyone talk to the driver at the track? Maybe he is not understanding the rules. If there is anything I can do to help, send me an email with the details and I'll be glad to help. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Weaver Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Jason, when a supposedly GTS2 E36 can run with a C Mod CCA car all the way up the front straight, I have no doubt there is noncompliance. Chuck Chuck, I too race an E36 M3 in GTS2 and have been on the track with the car in question at VIR and legal or not legal let's just say it makes ALOT of power! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmw22 Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 If someone has an email address for the driver/car in question, please email it to me. I'd like to get this cleared up before anymore events take place. Thanks, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Crawford Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 If someone has an email address for the driver/car in question, please email it to me. I'd like to get this cleared up before anymore events take place. Thanks, Mark Should not C Ellis handle it..... Fc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmw22 Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 Should not C Ellis handle it..... Fc It's an issue in two different regions, SE and MA. I just want this settled asap. I'm also the temporary GTS director in the MA region, and I certainly want this settled before the next MA race he enters. But to your point, I hope Chuck does take care of it! Fred, are you coming to the MidOhio in Sept? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellis805 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I want to set the record a bit straight, so people don't think I'm letting anyone run in any class in the South. Concerning Ted Worrell and GTS-2: I have had Ted do 2 different dyno's and weighed him 3 times, including a post race impound at the last event in Roebling. He is very heavy, but he makes power to weight for GTS-2. To show the parity, here's the top 5 best lap times from the Roebling race Saturday (5-17-08) for the GTS-2 class: Zachary Lutz 1:22:532 Ted Worrell: 1:22.566 Chuck Baader: 1:22.646 Chip Stabler: 1:23.174 Eric Nissen: 1:23:244 Interestingly, Lutz's car was within a few pounds of being a GTS-1 car! As far as the race goes, Ted won with an overall time of 22:38.144 and Chuck was second with an overall time of 22:38.997 I'm not sure less than one second over an entire race screams of a dyno problem. Also, Chuck you have admitted that you could lose some weight in your car and probably easily beat Ted, if you weren't trying to keep your car SCCA eligible. You are certainly within your right to go through the NASA protest process, but I feel it's probably unnecessary. Also, as of now per Julie, Ted hasn't registered for Barber yet. I am just itching to get my new engine finished so I can move up a class and play with you guys. GTS-2 is by far, the SE's most exciting class. Good Luck, C- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmw22 Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 Thanks Chuck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsullinger Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I am just itching to get my new engine finished so I can move up a class and play with you guys. GTS-2 is by far, the SE's most exciting class. You should get a louder horn, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwbaader Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 My point, Chuck, is the only way he is running those lap times is because he is over a second quicker from T9 to T1. With the HP/Weight he is supposed to have, I don't think that is possible, based on Eric Nissen's car (which is very close to the class minimum) and how our cars compare on the straights at RA and RR. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FandangoDrew Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 My point, Chuck, is the only way he is running those lap times is because he is over a second quicker from T9 to T1. With the HP/Weight he is supposed to have, I don't think that is possible, based on Eric Nissen's car (which is very close to the class minimum) and how our cars compare on the straights at RA and RR. Chuck To me it seems very believable that a heavier and more powerful car (still within the ratio) would be faster from T9-T1. It should also be noted that speed on the straight is dictated by exit speed of the turn before the straight so there is no way to compare cars by straightaway speed only. Chuck E did say that the car in question is heavy and therefore he may have a good bit more hp (with in the rules). Foe example: Gts2 has a max ratio of 14.5. therefore a 3400lbs car can have 234hp and a 2500lbs car would be only 172hp I know from experience that the two cars above would perform very differently on track and especially at a track like RRR where the heavy car would be faster from T8- T1 and the lighter car would be faster from T2 -T8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwbaader Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 Understood, Drew. However, here is the scenario: I am flat from T6 to T1. He lifts for T9 and I get a good 4-5mph run on him. He pulls me, with me in his draft, a full second up the straight: I cannot stay in his draft. That, my friend, is just plain old horsepower!!! (and I did this for 16 laps on Saturday, so I think I have a good feel for the difference) Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.