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Question Regarding Enduro Rules


ianacole

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Section 7.7 of the Endurance rules state:

 

If a crewmember is injured during a pit stop the team is automatically disqualified and the entire team may be ejected from the event & may be permanently ejected from NASA. Teams are reminded to VERY work carefully.

 

So, if a crew member is hopping over the wall, slips, and breaks an ankle the team is automatically disqualified?

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You have a point about this rule. If a person gets a cut popping a fender, does that qualify as an injury? Whayt is the "REAL" intent of this rule? Accidents do happen and I don't think that it should constitute a disqualification. I don't want to think that I spend a bus load of money to race a car and think that some getting a minor cut on their hand or elbow will disqualify me either. What if you are doing a pit stop and another car enters next to you and injures one of your pit crew members? Are you both then disqualified from the race and possibly from NASA?

 

GREAT QUESTION!!

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I'd really like to get some insight on this as the ramifications on the 25 Hours of Thunderhill are quite significant.

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IMO it is there to make sure that EVERYONE takes their time and does not rush. This race is for fun, end of story. I have done it for several years now and never seen anyone injured.

 

Inured is at the discretion of the RD just like pretty much everything else is.

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If it is there so evrybody takes their time, then it should say that PERIOD! That is not what it says and I don't think that is the intent. You can be fast and safe without "taking your time". That is not what it is about. I've been involved in all but the first 25 and to tell you the truth, I have never heard anyone bring this rule to light. It sounds like a really, really dumb rules that doesn't promote or inhance the spirit or sport of hobby racing. If I can comfortably change a tire in 3.5 seconds, I am not going to "take my time" because a rule says that I have to. If I break a nail changing a tire, is my team disqualified? GIVE ME BREAK! HEY King Jerry, where are you to chime in on this one?

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If it is there so evrybody takes their time, then it should say that PERIOD! That is not what it says and I don't think that is the intent. You can be fast and safe without "taking your time". That is not what it is about. I've been involved in all but the first 25 and to tell you the truth, I have never heard anyone bring this rule to light. It sounds like a really, really dumb rules that doesn't promote or inhance the spirit or sport of hobby racing. If I can comfortably change a tire in 3.5 seconds, I am not going to "take my time" because a rule says that I have to. If I break a nail changing a tire, is my team disqualified? GIVE ME BREAK! HEY King Jerry, where are you to chime in on this one?

 

 

You miss understood what i said, err typed. I too have been involved in all but the first 25, won a few of them too and never had the slightest injury occur.

 

By take your time i mean, slow is fast. I work on pit crews on a regular basis and every time some one "hurrys" they screw something up. If you watch the fastest teams they are quick but not flying around. In Grand Am they have fined teams when some one was injured in the pits.

 

Really any time you are on track racing or crewing safety should be your number one concern.

 

Our Team Owner gave the same speech friday night after qual every year, "if any one gets hurt we will pack it up and go home, we are were to have fun first and win second. Doing something unsafe is just going to cost us more time in the long run."

 

I think those are words to live by, and have done us very well in the 25 hour. the rule has been there since the 12 IIRC.

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I completely agree - the last thing I want is anyone to get hurt while we are out there to have a good time. However, the rule as written is a bit draconian. It would be one thing if it stated "may be disqualified at the discression of the race director." The reality is is that accidents do happen, sometimes regardless of how many precautions we take or how careful we think we are being. My primary concern is that our team is putting a lot of time and effort (and money) into attending the 25 Hour this year, and it's a great risk that a minor incident that results in an injury, even one that is self-induced, isn't even eligible for review, but requires immediate team expulsion.

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I completely agree - the last thing I want is anyone to get hurt while we are out there to have a good time. However, the rule as written is a bit draconian. It would be one thing if it stated "may be disqualified at the discression of the race director." The reality is is that accidents do happen, sometimes regardless of how many precautions we take or how careful we think we are being. My primary concern is that our team is putting a lot of time and effort (and money) into attending the 25 Hour this year, and it's a great risk that a minor incident that results in an injury, even one that is self-induced, isn't even eligible for review, but requires immediate team expulsion.

 

 

I completely agree, but the risk is very much there (for you not completing the 25 hour). I have seen some amazing things happen at the 25hour. Cars crash in qual and never make the race, cars crashing out on the first lap and never getting the car on the track again.

 

I haven't been over the CCR, WERC sups, and the 25hour sups but i thought that some were in one of those documents it states that everything is at the discretion of the RD. I'll start pouring over the rules for the 25hour again here in September. If i find anything on it i will post it here.

 

If some one wants a quicker answer I am sure Jerry would have no problem explaining the rules, and the you have it from the RDs mouth.

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I agree with everyone here on their take of or interpetation of this rule. I am all for safety first and foremost. It was an understatement of "lots of time and money"! I second that! This is a good agruement for all and I think it should be discussed or modified. I think all would agree that racing at any level is risky and dangerous no matter what anyone says. Everyone that participaes knows that going in. We just have to be as aware and careful as we possibly can, not just our teams, but all who is around us as well. Or should it say, " moderate to major injury" I would suspect it operates like employment: "report all injuries, no matter how small". This rules while discussed, seems to be to vague as written.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The rule seems pretty clear to me. No injuries, period. If there is an injury, you may be DQ'd, so it is advisable we do everything we can to prevent it.

 

Just like fuel. No spillage. No exceptions. Much less chance of fire. Racing is fun and safe.

 

If you know your crew might get cut, make sure they are wearing gloves. Make sure they wear hearing protection. Make sure they can't get hit. Make sure they have proper attire for the work environment. And on it goes.

 

I think the point is that many people don't always know all the risks associated with this sport, and it is the responsibility of the team to ensure that even minor injuries do not occur.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Being not entirely politically correct, this rule is in place rather than the required 5 minute minimum pitstop. There would be no hurry if all stops had to be at least 5 minutes long, but there would be complaining from some teams and it can be a pain to police.

 

This rule was probably written vaguely to allow for common sense to be at play. Nobody gets tossed from the race over a boo boo. If you hit your crew with your car, you deserve to get dq'd. If you hit another team's crew, you may deserve to get suspended.

If one of your crew is getting all NASCAR and drops the car on a teammate damaging him, bad things can happen and the words Attorney and Liability come to play.

 

Its my point of view that you read this rule with the spirit with which it was written. If your tire changer scrapes his knee on the pavement getting to his knees or burns his pinky on a hot brake part or your co driver falls over the pit wall, no body is going to be penalized.

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