newbie questions

[pixrken]

Hi;

 

I'm very interested in 944-Spec racing and have a couple of questions.

 

1. Regarding minimum vehicle weight of 2600 lbs including driver, is that with gas or without? I don't know how much my vehicle weights but if I go with the 944 FAQ of 2637 lbs dry weight for a '88 944 and minus 180 for the driver that's 2457 dry. I removed the back seat, rear carpeting, sun roof motor, speakers, stereo system and associated wiring and I'm not close to removing a 100 lbs yet and I have to add back the weight of a rollcage. I'll remove the a/c unit but don't see how to get down to that weight without using fiberglass or carbon fiber fender pieces. Are you folks using lightweight body replacement pieces?

 

2. What rollcages are you using with your 944's?

 

3. Regarding rule 11.8 on oil cooling. Does a external oil cooler need to be a factory part, i.e.- a 944 turbo oil cooler? Does the external oil cooler bypass or use in conjunction with the internal oil cooler?

 

4. Do you drive your spec 944's to the track (street legal) or do you trailer the vehicle to the track?

 

 

Thanks for any info.

[Chris Benbow]

Welcome Ken,

 

This is a great group and a great series that is just starting to take off. These cars are fun to drive and generally pretty easy to maintain.

 

1) Lightweight body pieces are not allowed, only stock. It is possible for most people to get thier cars down to weight. Some seem to do it more easily than others. If you get a welded cage that seems to add more weight than the bolt ins. You just have to keep taking things out till you get there. I have a welded cage and I'm about 40-50lbs over. There's still more I can take out, but I'm not sure that at this stage of the series it really makes a difference.

 

2) About half have custom welded cages and the other half have a bolt in roll cage. The most popular bolt in is Autopower, made here in San Diego. There are other bolt ins around.

 

3) Oil cooler can be any oil cooler, doesn't need to be stock or Porsche. I don't have one but I understand that the external oil cooler replaces the existing one in most cases though there is one that accesses via the oil filter that would leave the existing system in place.

 

4) You can certainly drive the car to the track and several do. I prefer to trailer because it is easier to bring more stuff, easier to drive around during the race weekend, don't have to worry about getting the car home if there is a mechanical problem.

[pixrken]

Hi Chris;

 

Thanks for the response.

 

Rereading the rules in section 16 - Appearance, it's not obvious to me that you can't use lightweight body pieces. Thanks for the clarification before I spend money and time going down that path. I'll try to find weight reduction elsewhere. section 16.1.2 on front fender liner removal and 16.2.5 on a/c, heater core and blower fan removal will be the next things for me to attack.

 

Good point about bringing a trailer to get the car home if there is a mechanical problem. Since I'll be coming down from Northern California (I live in the San Francisco - Bay Area) to attend the events in Southern Cal, I'm a little far from home. Not having to worry about keeping the car street legal can lead to more weight reduction (lights, cats, etc.)

 

Hopefully, I'll be able to run with you guys in about a year, my project 944 will be ready in about a month but I'll need to get enough DE events under my belt before I petition for a competition license.

[PeanutinCA]

Hey Ken,

there is another gentlemen in the NorCal area who is starting up the 944 Spec series. Sorry I cannot recall his name at the minute. And, I just spoke to a guy today who was asking about the series and if it existed in the Midwest? So, I sent him on the search for the same person. Timmy will provide the name when he returns.

 

Dylan.

[pixrken]

Hi Dylan;

 

I definitely would be interested in getting in touch with the guy that's starting up a Norcal 944 Spec series. I would be more familiar with the tracks since I done DE's at Thunderhill and Leguna Seca already.

 

Thanks for the info.

[944-Spec#94]

Ken,

There is a bill Pennock in Nor cal with a 944-spec car. Only one so far.

 

Rules intent is pretty simple. Make the cars cheap, faster and equal.

 

Cheap means stock motors and stock bodies.

Fast means all the cheap weight reduction possible.

Equal means spec tires and spec shocks.

 

2600 lbs min is with driver as raced.

 

In my car (84 chassis) I run about 2625 or so at the scales. This is with low fuel and abotu 60 lbs of balast to ensure I make weight. The ballast consists of a stock passenger's seat that i just never removed and 30 lbs of barbel weights in the front pass footwell area. Rules spell out ballast location restrictions.

 

My car has a custom weld-in cage and still fully fucntional power windows as I store there car outside. I trailer it to the track.

 

Check out my website (linked in my signature) for lots of little details.

[uberklasse]

Joe,

street legal with window still in, ballast and seat and you are that low on weight (2625) I have my door panels/windows removed and I am still at 2660 with less than 1/4 tank.

 

Do you have a smaller battery?

 

Newbie,

Just do what everyone else told me to do. Get the car within spec and come out and get a lot of seat time. Good luck on the Nor Cal end...hope to see you at Buttonwillow and Willow sometime soon.

[pixrken]

Joe,

 

Ken,

There is a bill Pennock in Nor cal with a 944-spec car. Only one so far.

Wow! only one 944-spec car currently in Norcal?

 

Rules intent is pretty simple. Make the cars cheap, faster and equal.

That's the reason why I'm looking to get into this class

 

Check out my website (linked in my signature) for lots of little details.

Great website with lots of useful info.

Thanks!

[pixrken]

Newbie,

Just do what everyone else told me to do. Get the car within spec and come out and get a lot of seat time. Good luck on the Nor Cal end...hope to see you at Buttonwillow and Willow sometime soon.

Jason,

Thanks! Seat time is what I'm looking for once I'm done with my car.

With only one other 944-spec car in Norcal I'm sure I'll be heading south to meet up with you guys.

[944-Spec#94]

Joe,

street legal with window still in, ballast and seat and you are that low on weight (2625) I have my door panels/windows removed and I am still at 2660 with less than 1/4 tank.

 

Do you have a smaller battery?

 

Well Not street legal.. No cat, missing some emissions gear, no headlights.

 

I do still have a stock sized battery and the box for the heater and a blower motor too.

 

PS... I weigh 155 lbs so that helps some

[PeanutinCA]

PS... I weigh 155 lbs so that helps some

 

Ahhh, you and me must share the same chicken legs then!!!

 

P.Dilly.

[slock]

Check Out GOTORacing.com for custome welded roll cages. We run in Norcal Honda Challenge and USTCC. we are located in the Bay Area. Come to SPIR this weekend and look us up. You will be able to inspect our work.

 

Steve Lock

[uberklasse]

Yeah, my next weight savings is my gut!

 

I have packed on some lbs. since starting my new job...lot's of entertaining with dinner, drinks and lunch.

 

 

Joe/anyone,

How much weight do I save by removing the headlights?

[PeanutinCA]

I have a set off the car at home you could weigh Jason. I would think 10 lbs?

[Spec-944#70]

I'm at 2640 with about an 1/8th tank and I weigh a hefty 220lbs and now have a passenger seat, still have headlights, no A/C or heating equip, no windows, gutted doors, welded NASCAR style cage, gutted sunroof, stripped interior. I'm staying here incase I loose a few or end up finishing on fumes.

[944-Spec#94]

PS... I weigh 155 lbs so that helps some

 

Ahhh, you and me must share the same chicken legs then!!!

 

P.Dilly.

 

Well not really... I have more weight down low than up high.

 

I am a pretty good biker, just don't ask me what a bench.

 

PS... of course this might be my edge... Lower CG!

[944-Spec#94]

 

 

Joe/anyone,

How much weight do I save by removing the headlights?

 

Hmm not really sure, but my rough guess is 10-20 lbs. Remember this not just the lights, but the entire head light mechanism. Only thing left are the metal covers to seal off the front end and make her look stock.

 

 

I could probably find another 20 lbs I could further removed from my car, but I have not bothered since I already ballast. I have my ballast in 10 lb increments. This allows me to pull a little here and there to make weight, but not by too much. I am pretty happy with where I am right now since I 'd rather be a little heavy going to the scales than with in 5 lbs. Then if the scales are abit off could be under weight. Remember the official scales are those at the track be them right or wrong. So I like to have 12-15 lb margin of error. I typically run the car low on fuel so that might light is just turning on at race end. I don't run lower since I can be disconcerting to see the light on during the race too much. I keep thinking I might run out of fuel. Not good for confidence. Anyway the early gauges are very sensitive to slosh in the tank so a right turn lowers the fuel level and left raises it. That means I get a nice period of light flickering long before the "reserve" light comes on for good.

 

Eric I think is one of the super light car winners.

 

Lets do some calcuations.

 

Ok.. my car is 2625 lbs as raced.

 

That includes 30lbs of ballast & 30 lbs stock passengers seat. So pull the seat and ballast and the car is at 2565 lbs. Given my 155 lbs weight the car is at 2410 lbs.

 

Now lets look at eric's car

 

2640 with pass seat and 225 lbs driver

 

So 2610 no pass seat and 2385 lbs without driver.

 

That is pretty light. Good work Eric.

 

[Tim Comeau]

Ken,

Is your name "pixr' short for PIXAR? As in John Lasseter?

 

And yes, Bill Pennock has a 944-spec car in Nor Cal. Hope you can get together with him. If not, Start talking it up with other 944 guys around you.

[pixrken]

Ken,

Is your name "pixr' short for PIXAR? As in John Lasseter?

 

Hi Tim,

Yes, I'm a old-timer (16+ years at Pixar).

Do you know John?

 

And yes, Bill Pennock has a 944-spec car in Nor Cal. Hope you can get together with him. If not, Start talking it up with other 944 guys around you.

 

Do you have a email address for Bill?

I'm sure I'll be attending the SoCal events till there's more 944-spec cars in NorCal.

[pixrken]

Check Out GOTORacing.com for custome welded roll cages. We run in Norcal Honda Challenge and USTCC. we are located in the Bay Area. Come to SPIR this weekend and look us up. You will be able to inspect our work.

 

Steve Lock

 

Hi Steve,

 

Being in the Bay Area helps.

I sent you a PM.

[Tim Comeau]

Ken,

That's cool! I don't know John Lasseter, just a fan. He and Pete Doctor sketched on a T shirt for me at an animation show down here in San Diego.

[email protected] is the only info I have for Bill Pennock. I believe he runs with PRC?

[944-spec#09]

Ken

Welcome to the group. There does seem to be a lot of variation in car weights. As Joe P said, he has his heater core, power windows and stock passenger seat in and still has to add ballast. (remember, the rules say the ballast must me bolted to the floor in the passenger seat forward of the front seat mounting bolt holes.) My car has the heater core out, no door windows and I am still almost 100 lb over (of course I weigh 70 lb more than Joe). You can take out the headlight motors for about a 15lb savings but I do not recommend taking out the headlights themselves as there are (at least in AZ) some night races and since my car is street legal I need them. You will need to rig a system to hold the lights up or down though. You can replace the battery with a lawnmower battery from Autozone for about $20 (they have two - get the one with the higher cranking amps) for a savings of at least 15 lb. (and it is high weight - the most desirable to remove). You will need to fabricate a tiedown strap and get a longer ground cable.

The rules were designed to be relatively easy to meet the weight limits without drastic mods. Remember also that the spec rules say that you CANNOT do anything from stock unless specifically allowed in the rules. Tim and I are in the process of updating the rules for 2006 and the final draft will be posted soon. There will not be many changes as they will be just related to reliability and safety so if you follow the existing ones you will be fine. The only required change will likely be to add a kill switch to be consistent with the NASA CCRs.

Good luck and feel free to call either Tim or me if you have any questions (602)908-9449. Its a great class and we all have FUN!

[pixrken]

Hi Steve Sapareto,

 

Thanks for the welcome.

 

Thanks everyone that provided a approx. weight of their cars, I'm a believer now that cheap weight reduction is possible.

 

I need to go on a diet

[pixrken]

Another question.

The front nose of my 944 has seen better days (cracked in a couple of places). Not much luck on eBay and salvage yard condition is not much better. Is it legal to use a aftermarket nose like fiberwerk's replacement 944 nose as long as I don't add the lower spoiler?

[Tim Comeau]

That's under discussion. Before, it was verbally agreed upon with class director, that you could use a fiberglass replacement as long as it was an exact replica. No aero advantage. Uncertain yet as to final decision. I know clean ones are hard to find.