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2009 Nationals - MidOhio?


Markus

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sorry for thinking things through a little bit.. geez. I recall another part of the brainstorming process as weeding out the unviable ideas..... its not that hard a question if its that robust a solution.

 

I don't think there is really much better than to simply rotate tracks (though the logistics on NASA's part would be nightmarish). My $0.02. My picks are available earlier in this thread

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Dude, this is just an idea. I take it you've never participated in a brainstorm session? Nothing improves without ideas first.

 

What's your solution to solving the obvious cross country transportation issues... or do you just have criticisms to other people's ideas?

 

How long have you been racing? Cross Country transportation issues have existed since the first advertised race over 100 years ago. Have you EVER seen a sanctioning body (other than CART/IRL for out of country races), subsidize or arrange for payment or discounting of transportation? I don't see NASA breaking any new ground here and reinventing new ways of spending their money.

 

This is road racing and it has always been up to the driver/team to finance their addiction to this great hobby either through private funds or seeking sponsorships. The sanctioning body's responsibility ends at providing the rules, the venue, staff and insurance for the event.

 

Your idea sounds great in a brainstorming session but it's one that gets quickly dismissed as unprobable by those with experience to recognize something that isn't going to happen either due to history or just reason.

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As a matter of fact I have participated in several SCCA events that offered a tow fund. The Spec Miata Milwaukee Cup, run in 2004 and 2005 at Road America, reimbursed me about 1/2 of the entry fee to tow from Ohio. Instead of the majority of the contingency sponsor money going to just the top five, some of it could be redirected into a tow fund.

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As a matter of fact I have participated in several SCCA events that offered a tow fund. The Spec Miata Milwaukee Cup, run in 2004 and 2005 at Road America, reimbursed me about 1/2 of the entry fee to tow from Ohio. Instead of the majority of the contingency sponsor money going to just the top five, some of it could be redirected into a tow fund.

 

My local SCCA region reimburses me for competing at Topeka.

 

I assume this is because they haven't bothered to read the results.

 

I'm of the opinion that NASA would see better results from a West Coast and East Coast championship race. This would limit everyone's maximum tow and it would provide a perfect opportunity for literally zillions of electrons spent on the Internet arguing which one was "tougher" or "faster".

 

Or here's another idea... make the National Championship free for anyone who's participated in the requisite races. That would put 100-200 gallons of fuel back into everyone's budget. The shortfall to NASA could be made up by selling hats on the Internet to all of our devoted fans.

 

While I sympathize with the people who are driving 2000 miles to get here, I'd also ask for some of your sympathy. Last year I had a dozen or so spectators for the Championship race... this year I have probably twenty people who would like to go. And I'm not going to ask them to pay Mid-Ohio's outrageous entry fee, which as I recall is the same amount you'd pay to attend a Grand-Am race without a paddock pass, so I have to stump up for my entire posse, yo.

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afaik - the contingency stuff is all decided upon and handled by the company offering it - hence the little control to reduce the minimums required for a class to qualify, etc, etc. All NASA does afaik is announce it and serve as a contact. I could be wrong - I'd certainly care to see less of that and a bit more of a tow fund type deal...

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Incoming from left field......

 

 

Every Region could add a small amount to the entry fees that could go into a "pot" for the top 3 drivers in each class (or designated classes) that wanted to go to Nationals. Maybe $5-15 depending on the Region. That way the Regions are all represented and everyone can feel all warm and fuzzy about helping their fastest guys get to the big dance.

 

1st in class = $750 transportation support

2nd = $500

3rd = $250

 

*** These numbers are out of thin air so easy on the flames

 

I for one like the idea of keeping it at the same track. (yes, I'm close to M-O but that's not the reason) I wasn't a car guy at all when the Run Offs were at M-O but I knew about it because it was an ANNUAL event. I went as a spectator because some friends stumbled across it the year before. Since the marketing for the smaller events isn't the greatest I think it takes time to get the word out and get the spectators to show up. Once the people show up to watch (get hooked) everybody wins. JMHO of course

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What's your solution to solving the obvious cross country transportation issues... or do you just have criticisms to other people's ideas?

 

I posted my solution. Alternating Easter Central and Western Central championship venues. Personally I think this really helps transport costs and brings nationals in reach for most NASA racers. As it stands right now Nationals is for East coast racers and well funded west coast racers. Low budget west coast guys pretty much have to trade a 1/2 season worth of local events to pay for Nationals. Moving to a geographicly closer area will give the lower budget guys a shot at planning for it even it is every other year.

 

Now that solution brings its own issues of logistical support of moving the event between two tracks. I don't know all the issues surrounding that, but I assume there are alot of aspects that may doing that very hard.

 

Stilll is is an idea.

 

 

As subsidized transport. Coming up with money to have an impact on transport cost is not that hard on the east coast since a little bit goes a long way. On the west coast that same per racer $$ benefit just does not have the impact on costs since they are so much higher from this part of the world. I just can't expect NASA Regional or National to fork over enough $$$ to make a serious dent in transport costs. Sure NASA could charge more per event to create slushfund for this, but I don't think that is best think for all NASA members. Remember that without a strong local region there is nobody around to even send to Nationals. Nationals is great thing to have, but I can't hurt the quality and value of events held at a regional level. Lets face it clubs who's entire club racing program is centered around a single national event do so at cost to fun aspect of regional events where the bulk of the members partcipate. NASA does not need to be like that.

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What I'm reading is that there are solutions out there. Other sanctioning bodies have had to address this too. I guess it turns out "experience" doesn't go as far as some try to make it sound...

 

Joe, it sounds like you just won't make the trip to Ohio unless it's free. That's not a criticism - personally I don't think there's anything wrong with that - but that's the sentiment I get from your posts. And I'm sure you're not alone in that. In this case a rotating West/East coast National event every other year would be the answer to this problem. However, as Trevor mentioned previously, lots of people from the East coast would just skip it. I know I would have to take a hard look at attending. Then we wind up with the same problems, just reversed every year.

 

As mentioned earlier there is merit to having the Champs at the same place, every year, for many years. That's how I found out about the runoffs too!

 

One other idea... you could also lobby your car mfg for support of club racing Mazda gives up to $600 if you are 1-2-3 in your class and towing more than 1400 miles to the "other" national event. I won't be surprised to see that move to NASA soon. That plus, say a $600 tow fund from the sanctioning body would just about pay for gas for a 4,000 mi. round trip tow. Maybe everyone should just drive a Mazda.....................

 

Patrick

ducking and running

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... And I'm sure you're not alone in that. In this case a rotating West/East coast National event every other year would be the answer to this problem. However, as Trevor mentioned previously, lots of people from the East coast would just skip it. I know I would have to take a hard look at attending. Then we wind up with the same problems, just reversed every year....

 

 

Ok,

So you can give me "heat" for not want to spend $2000+ to transport to Nationals from Phoenix Az to ohio, but if the race were held close to the west, Miller for example, you would not go.

 

 

So clearly you justily east coaster skipping it if I has a Western location yet you want all the west coast guys to come out to an eastern centric event. Seems like you can't have it both ways.

 

At least an alternating location will give west coast guys a chance to go every couple years. Lest you for get Miller is a 12-13 hour tow and 750 miles from Phoenix and about that long from the population ceneters of LA and SF. So that location would still take an effort for us to attend, but it puts it in reach for both travel costs and travel time. Remember most of us have a life with job and family Doing a 3 day event with a 1 day tow each way is still 5 days. Consider Nationals is even longer it takes alot of time anyway. So that is just another factor to work in. Make it closer like a 1 day tow and it opens the possiblity to many more drivers.

 

BTW... My idea is not designed to "Max the numbers" at nationals, but more to give us low budget west coast guys a chance to partcipate in a national championship without breaking the bank. I have been a NASA racer since 2002 and when I heard of Nationals I thought it was a great thing. Then I heard about Mid-ohio and thought, great track, but doing that just became near impossible due to the distance.

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Remember most of us have a life

 

Who's "us"? I thought this was a message board for grown men who spend their weekends racing converted street cars against each other for an audience of basically zero

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Remember most of us have a life

 

Who's "us"? I thought this was a message board for grown men who spend their weekends racing converted street cars against each other for an audience of basically zero

 

 

We do it for all the prize money!!!

 

oh wait.....

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Announced at dinner tonight:

 

2009 and 2010 Nationals to be held at Miller

 

20011 and 2012 Nationals to be held at Mid Ohio

 

Well for the next two years we will have no rain and it will be a reasonable drive for those in the Western United States.

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And not a reasonable one for anyone east of the mississippi.It will be a 25-30 hour tow from Ohio I like that solution though it seems pretty fair.

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for 3 years its been an incredible tow for the west coast - giving them 2 years of an easier one (Miller is still 700+mi from LA) and holding it at a jewel of a facility isn't bad

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for 3 years its been an incredible tow for the west coast - giving them 2 years of an easier one (Miller is still 700+mi from LA) and holding it at a jewel of a facility isn't bad

 

Not complaining.

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I vote for one of biggest events on the central east and west coast being a automatic qualifier for Nationals with a hightened entry fee for that particular semifinal. The top three get a piece of the afore mentioned purse to help support a trip to nationals. If they refuse or cant go, the buck gets passed to the next qualifier, and if that doesnt happen the money is split between the people that can go. And the Nationals event, which unless is at a US centralized location, should not be in one place for more than 2 years or so, alternating coasts.

 

This gives guys an option, hone your skills at your local tracks and save up for semis and get some help for nationals. Or for those that cant, keep doing it the way it is now, with points places at each event.

 

Obviously the goal here is to get the fastest people at Nationals and I'm sure there are some really fast guys on the west coast that just cant make the trip. This could also be made on an even smaller level to garner interest. Make a quad regional that is similar and gives a little support for the semifinal.

 

If the national moves and is not in a centralized location, the semifinal that is farther away from the nationals venue gets a proportionate amount of the elevated entry fee to the regional that is closer, so the guys that are farther away get more support to get to nationals.

 

I think this would elevate the competition at Nationals as well as diversify the competition.

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I think the goal is to fill every race group with entries. The fastest cars can go now. As well as the Nationals are doing, it is not in a position to tell people that they can't go, if they want to. When you take into account the ever increasing expense of travel, I think its a bad idea to restrict participation.

 

Its a 35 hour haul, one way, for me. So, its beyond my capability. I will just have to wait.

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I think the goal is to fill every race group with entries. The fastest cars can go now. As well as the Nationals are doing, it is not in a position to tell people that they can't go, if they want to. When you take into account the ever increasing expense of travel, I think its a bad idea to restrict participation.

 

Its a 35 hour haul, one way, for me. So, its beyond my capability. I will just have to wait.

 

Filling the groups is easy. Making them nationally competitive not so much. And yes maybe the fastest cars "can" go but who wants to travel 30+ hours from so. cal to ohio? There has to be come flexibilty which the new news is surely helpful. I'm not talking restriction participation because like I said, anyone can do it the old way as well, but they wont get "sponsored" by Nasa through contingency money. But at least we'll increase the chances of seeing the Mid Ohio Champions meets the Miller champions year in and year out with incentives.

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Filling the groups is easy.

Are they full now?

And yes maybe the fastest cars "can" go but who wants to travel 30+ hours from so. cal to ohio?

 

Same can be said about NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Tampa to Salt Lake City.

 

Have you thought about how much more an entry fee would have to be to make it work?

How many drivers would get the travel assistance per class?

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Filling the groups is easy.

Are they full now?

And yes maybe the fastest cars "can" go but who wants to travel 30+ hours from so. cal to ohio?

 

Same can be said about NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Tampa to Salt Lake City.

 

Have you thought about how much more an entry fee would have to be to make it work?

How many drivers would get the travel assistance per class?

 

Filling the groups is as easy as first come first serve and no qualifications like there is now if they just wanted numbers. Could be like a regular weekend at Mid Ohio awarding the winner the nat. championship. The normal turnout for Mid-O plus the people that would come anyways would more than likely fill up the registration. There are some things (economy,gas) that are going to limit that to an extent.

 

The new nationals schedule helps the excessively long trips, it's not going to be closer to you every year, but you DONT have to travel 30 hours to win nationals now, just wait till it comes closer. Texas maybe outta luck because both are pretty far.

 

I havent done the logistics of how an increase would have to go to make it work, but similar to tire contingency plans I think there should have to be so many people in the class to get the reward. I also know that a $10 times the 400 or so people that come to Road Atlanta is 4k and if you consider it's a national semifinal may be able to get more out of at least the racers and TT'ers. A worthy gamble IMO. May be just the first guy in each class, but not all classes will have enough people to qualify.

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You don't sound like you have a lot of respect for the National Championship as it is currently decided.

 

I have no issue with moving the championship around. I encourage that part.

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Filling the groups is easy.

Are they full now?

And yes maybe the fastest cars "can" go but who wants to travel 30+ hours from so. cal to ohio?

 

Same can be said about NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Atlanta, Charlotte, and Tampa to Salt Lake City.

 

Have you thought about how much more an entry fee would have to be to make it work?

How many drivers would get the travel assistance per class?

 

Filling the groups is as easy as first come first serve and no qualifications like there is now if they just wanted numbers. Could be like a regular weekend at Mid Ohio awarding the winner the nat. championship. The normal turnout for Mid-O plus the people that would come anyways would more than likely fill up the registration. There are some things (economy,gas) that are going to limit that to an extent.

 

The new nationals schedule helps the excessively long trips, it's not going to be closer to you every year, but you DONT have to travel 30 hours to win nationals now, just wait till it comes closer. Texas maybe outta luck because both are pretty far.

 

I havent done the logistics of how an increase would have to go to make it work, but similar to tire contingency plans I think there should have to be so many people in the class to get the reward. I also know that a $10 times the 400 or so people that come to Road Atlanta is 4k and if you consider it's a national semifinal may be able to get more out of at least the racers and TT'ers. A worthy gamble IMO. May be just the first guy in each class, but not all classes will have enough people to qualify.

 

 

Did you go to nationals this year? If not, why?

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I did not.

 

Why? I am not ready for the nationals. My first races were at Road Atlanta August 2007.

Because of car issues my '08 season by the deadline for the end of the first price level consisted of one 90 minute SCCA enduro to shake the car down and two races at Roebling.

 

I have run well enough to challenge at Roebling, to keep up at Road Atlanta, and was out to lunch at Barber. MidOhio falls more into the Barber catagory. The combination of only 7 races, no wins and a track type that I need work on meant I needed to wait another year.

 

Now it will be three years.

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