2009 Nationals in Utah?

[Jim P.]

I, for one, am looking forward to MMP, it is on my "Bucket List" of tracks to do in my lifetime.

 

-Jim Pantas

87 BMW 325is

GTS 2

[Fred Crawford]

I will make the ride to Utah IF there are folks to race... GTS5 is slim already. I dont care if they are west coast, east coast, ivory coast, I will go and race if the crowd is there, if the excitment is there. If GTS has a champ event here on the East I'll do that also. I guess it boils down to " if GTS feels a part of Nasa " or not? Nasa is going to Utah,

 

Fc

[911.racer]

You are all the reasons why I'm not running with PCA or POC any more, sad to see you guys having the same attitude with NASA. You should have staid with PCA.

Glad to be a Honda Challenge guy ! your attitude , make me feels like I should sell my street GT3 RS to not be put in the same basket as you guys.

It's a national event and I will go where ever it take place. ( reason why it's called a National !)

one last note: I'm from so.cal and made the trip 3 times to Ohio, you can check all the BB and you will not find any so.cal crying about how far midohio has been !

benny

 

Benny,

 

You make a few points. Let me take a look at them.

 

First. you say that we are all the reason we are not running with PCA or POC anymore. I am not sure what you mean by that. I can list the reasons that I do not do much PCA any more, but the biggest one is that there is not series points, championship race, or for that matter a fuss made over the winners. PCA has gone with the 'everyone is a winner' attitude that I can not stand in our schools these days.

 

Oh, and there is no POC in our area. It just does not exist outside a couple of areas.

 

I am good with the National idea. If there was a group of GTS competitors that we could be challenged with from the west coast and they have had to drive to Mid-O to catch the race there I might be excited. If the event was being held at a more interesting track like Laguna Seca, I might be excited. But, the event is being held at a track that is total flat, all reports are luke warm on the track, and there will be no one from that area to race against. It just makes no sense.

 

It would be like holding a POC race at Gingerman or Beaverun. Tracks in our area that are not that exciting, a long drive, and with no competitors from this area.

 

No one here is saying lets keep it at Mid-Ohio. I do not think I heard that at all. I heard votes for tracks that are easily 12 hours away from most of us. Face it. If I am going to drive to a track, spend $1300 on towing gas then I want there to be a good reason to get there.

 

Ed

[benny]

So the fact that we spend over $5000 to come ot Ohio does not count, because looks like it's all about you.

Just as an FYI, if you actually knew a bit more about racing outisde of your backyard, you could know the fact that Laguna as only 6 weekends a year with open sound (all other must be under92db). Laguna is not a private track, it's run by the county.

Even F1 could not get test days, with no sound limit, I'm sure the county will not allow NASA dyas with no limits.

As for Sears points, if you spend more time reading news versus being selfcentered, you may have heard rumors about the future on infineon.

So that does not leave much track for a close westcost and trying to be fare to the east cost guys.

But maybe once again the word national may not have the same meaning for the east cost guys.

I will suggest that you look at a map of this very large country. trust me I just drove back from Midohio, IT"S BIG !!!

LOL

NASA is the closest thing to pro-racing you will find in this country, maybe you are more a PCA "type" than a racer type.

It's about the racing not the politics. I will race on any track any days !

And let's not forget that very few people know Miller well, so that could even the field of competition, but again you have to be a racer to understand.

BTW I never ran Miller so I will not comment about the track until i run it. But i guaranty you that i will be there.

 

benny

[911.racer]

Ok, I am going to stop talking. This is my last post to this topic. You have already made up your mind and you are talking and not listening. If you were to actually read what I wrote you would have heard loud and clear:

 

1. I do not care where I need to go to get the competition. The only reason I race PCA any more is so I can go to some of the tracks that NASA does not go like Mosport and Daytona. I raced 10 NASA races and 0 PCA this year so far. PCA Mosport was the same weekend as NASA Road America.

 

2. There is no GTS competition on the west cost, so spending the money is not worth it if there is no competition.

 

You are right. This is about me and the other GTS racers. This is not about you and the Honda Challenge group. We are not saying the national race should not be out west. We are saying that because of the lack of GTS racers in that area the GTS race should not be in that area. Why would I want to go race where there is no competition.

 

And the $5000. Thanks for reminding me why I do not do much PCA racing. Because it is all about the money. You make the assumption that just because I am driving a German car I am loaded. Yes, I race on take offs every weekend because I can not afford fresh rubber. Yes, I do not have much money. Yes, I built my 911 racer from scratch and even now spend way too much money on upgrades and track weekend. Yes, I instruct on race weekends to offset the cost of the weekend. Yes, I have made my own body molds and make my own fiberglass parts for when they are damaged. The car is what I like to race, so there I am.

 

I have made no assumptions about you unlike you about me.

 

So, I guess I am morbidly curious. Why are you bothering to write this on the GTS forum if you are not involved with GTS other then you own a Porsche that costs more than my house.

 

Ed

Edited September 23, 2008 by Guest

[benny]

Eirc,

As an FYI So.cal represented almost 60% of all H4 at this last national. (and 100% of the podium !!!! LOL)

You should look at the opportunity to run a new professional track, and that is a national championship.

But once again, I'm the guy that travel to belguim to run at SPA, and germany to run the nurburgring.

Benny

 

You are all the reasons why I'm not running with PCA or POC any more, sad to see you guys having the same attitude with NASA. You should have staid with PCA.

Glad to be a Honda Challenge guy ! your attitude , make me feels like I should sell my street GT3 RS to not be put in the same basket as you guys.

It's a national event and I will go where ever it take place. ( reason why it's called a National !)

one last note: I'm from so.cal and made the trip 3 times to Ohio, you can check all the BB and you will not find any so.cal crying about how far midohio has been !

benny

 

Benny,

 

You failed to read the entire thread or only read bits and pieces that worked for your opinion.

 

The problem with GTS, so far, is that NO ONE out west runs GTS. West coast lacks a GTS region and competitors. It was mentioned on this thread that if that were to change next year, there would be no issues having a nationals event out west.

 

It would be similar to a situation where there was NO ONE who runs Honda Challenge out west. And in addition, no Honda Challenge West group.

 

That is the main issue here. Not that people dont want to drive out there, but that there is no west coast competition to even drive against!

 

Let me give the west coast GTS numbers. There was exactly "zero" GTS cars that ran enough races to qualify for Nationals in 2008 in California. In fact, a quick search of Mylaps didn't turn up one single result for a GTS car in California.

 

If there was someone to go race against from the west, quite a few of us would go to Utah. But it makes no sense at all for us to drive 2000+ miles to race against ourselves.

 

[benny]

ED you are right, we do not have much GTS in so.cal.

But as an ex Gt1 owner and IMSA GTU, the idea of gts appeal to me.

You guys always mention there is no GTS in cali.

I would answer YES, if you are blind.

But hell no if you think about it.

BMW club run with NASA and many porsche guys run with NASA once in a while. I've been with NASA So.cal for 7 years and I have to research pretty hard to find out about GTS, there is no real info on GTS here.

So most of the guys just run SU, just beacuse they do not know about GTS. I actually think GTS is a good class, but appear to be a east cost thing only.

I guaranty you that there is over 200 cars is cali that could be classified in some of the gts classes.

So you have the opportunity to atract a lot of competion in Utah, if you just inform people on GTS outside of east cost.

Don't forget it's never a one way road ! Who knows I may even show with a 993 cup car ! LOL

Benny

[911.racer]

See, Now I think we are talking the same language.

 

I had thought about coming out and running a PT class like Wong did when he supersized.

 

It is the job of the regions to cultivate the class, or someone from that area has to get interested and take the bull by the horns and lead the charge. So far, unfortunately that has not happened.

 

I doubt that we would end up in the same GTS class, though. My car is carrying an extra 100 lbs and has a restrictor plate in it to keep the power down so that I can run in a lower GTS (3) class because that is where the really good competition (and number of competitors) is. I am not winning (yet) but it has not stopped me from trying. Even unrestricted, I would still only make GTS4. I could even run slicks and still not be at the limit.

 

Ed

[benny]

The main issue ED, is that GTS act as it is an east cost serie and not a national.

When one of your Director, make a post the next day of the anouncement, about not going to Utah, how do you think people see that.

What kind of leadership is that. the post should have been about creating a buzz for GTS to insure participation in Utah.

I fully understand your concerns about racing the same guys you race on the east cost and going to utah.

Just as a Cali guy (french actually) it's give me and all other cali "could be gts" no reason to race GTS.

I ran SU for 5 years and can tell you that most of the SUs, would love to race in a better classed series like GTS.

Except GTS is an east cost only series.

So congrats I heard you just had your regional championship race at midOhio !!!

I had to make that joke

 

Just hopping that GTS managment could see this has an opportunity to grow to a national series, I heard you have free steaks dinner.

 

benny

[Eric W.]

Benny, there is no one out west who wants to take GTS and lead. Perhaps you would like to?

 

The inherent problem w/ GTS in the west is that they are lumped with BMWCCA and PCA. At least that is what I hear. How can GTS run it's own series when they are shown up by PCA/BMWCCA?

 

I'll say it again, if someone takes the helm out there and gets things going, Im all for going to Utah. Like Ed said, I dont care where I goto race, so long as there is good, clean and competitive racing. I think that was the plan if I am not mistaken. If there were GTS drivers out west who qualified for nationals, we'd still have it in Utah right?

 

Hell, I was even in talks with the Honda guys on somehow putting my car in that bigass trailer of Richie Hunter to go out there.

 

Eirc,

As an FYI So.cal represented almost 60% of all H4 at this last national. (and 100% of the podium !!!! LOL)

You should look at the opportunity to run a new professional track, and that is a national championship.

But once again, I'm the guy that travel to belguim to run at SPA, and germany to run the nurburgring.

Benny

 

Right, but there were still 40% of the other racers from other places aside from So.Cal right? You guys had incentive to go out there and prove So.Cal has the best H4 drivers. And you were right, because you got 100% podium (and congrats). But would that same incentive be there if you guys were the only ones racing H4? If ALL of the H4 drivers came from SoCal? Would all of you have driven the 30+ hours to race among yourselves for the "national" title?

 

Maybe So.Cal people have more disposable income, but I surely dont have that kind of money for bragging rights. Maybe Obama should scrap his tax plan and just tax those in SoCal

[benny]

I like your humor.

Benny

 

 

Maybe So.Cal people have more disposable income, but I surely dont have that kind of money for bragging rights. Maybe Obama should scrap his tax plan and just tax those in SoCal

[Eric W.]

I like your humor.

Benny

 

 

Maybe So.Cal people have more disposable income, but I surely dont have that kind of money for bragging rights. Maybe Obama should scrap his tax plan and just tax those in SoCal

 

Another thought Benny, why dont the guys who might wanna run GTS out west take the stand. Instead of arguing about why the "east coasters" dont wanna do it, they could gang up out there, become a show of force and say... BRING IT East Coasters!!!!

[scottbm3]

I like your humor.

Benny

 

 

Maybe So.Cal people have more disposable income, but I surely dont have that kind of money for bragging rights. Maybe Obama should scrap his tax plan and just tax those in SoCal

 

Benny,

 

From the looks of your finishes the last three years, you should want to come back to Mid-Ohio once more next year. You should take home the gold......

 

-Scott B.

GTS3 #88

[ianacole]

Just to be clear, and rectify some erroneous facts, there were 5 comptetitors in GTS in SoCal this year:

 

http://socal.drivenasa.com/points/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

Yes, they didn't complete enough events to compete in Nationals, but why should they. In Rocky Mountain we had 20 different competitors this year:

 

http://www.wasabiraceteam.com/2008pointstandings.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

At least another 20 have competed in the RM region in prior years. This doesn't account for 944 Spec that can (and are willing to) super size to GTS...

Edited September 23, 2008 by Guest

[benny]

This is a post I made earlier.

 

"The main issue ED, is that GTS act as it is an east cost serie and not a national.

When one of your Director, make a post the next day of the anouncement, about not going to Utah, how do you think people see that.

What kind of leadership is that. the post should have been about creating a buzz for GTS to insure participation in Utah.

I fully understand your concerns about racing the same guys you race on the east cost and going to utah.

Just as a Cali guy (french actually) it's give me and all other cali "could be gts" no reason to race GTS.

I ran SU for 5 years and can tell you that most of the SUs, would love to race in a better classed series like GTS.

......."

I do beleive some westcost Porsche and BMW will should up at Miller.

benny

 

 

I like your humor.

Benny

 

 

Maybe So.Cal people have more disposable income, but I surely dont have that kind of money for bragging rights. Maybe Obama should scrap his tax plan and just tax those in SoCal

 

Another thought Benny, why dont the guys who might wanna run GTS out west take the stand. Instead of arguing about why the "east coasters" dont wanna do it, they could gang up out there, become a show of force and say... BRING IT East Coasters!!!!

[Eric W.]

Just to be clear, and rectify some erroneous facts, there were 5 comptetitors in GTS in SoCal this year:

 

http://socal.drivenasa.com/points/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

Yes, they didn't complete enough events to compete in Nationals, but why should they. In Rocky Mountain we had 20 different competitors this year:

 

http://www.wasabiraceteam.com/2008pointstandings.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

At least another 20 have competed in the RM region in prior years. This doesn't account for 944 Spec that can (and are willing to) super size to GTS...

 

Get those people to get together and tell everyone else to BRING IT!

 

Ill be there.

[benny]

Eric i can tell you, that even if I'm a honda challenge dude, I'll try to bring as much GTS as I can. I really really want a porsche, just need a palce other than POC or PCA to run it.

 

benny

 

Just to be clear, and rectify some erroneous facts, there were 5 comptetitors in GTS in SoCal this year:

 

http://socal.drivenasa.com/points/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

Yes, they didn't complete enough events to compete in Nationals, but why should they. In Rocky Mountain we had 20 different competitors this year:

 

http://www.wasabiraceteam.com/2008pointstandings.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

At least another 20 have competed in the RM region in prior years. This doesn't account for 944 Spec that can (and are willing to) super size to GTS...

 

Get those people to get together and tell everyone else to BRING IT!

 

Ill be there.

[ianacole]

Get those people to get together and tell everyone else to BRING IT!

 

Ill be there.

 

I'm working on it

[bmw22]

The main issue ED, is that GTS act as it is an east cost serie and not a national.

When one of your Director, make a post the next day of the anouncement, about not going to Utah, how do you think people see that.

What kind of leadership is that. the post should have been about creating a buzz for GTS to insure participation in Utah.

I fully understand your concerns about racing the same guys you race on the east cost and going to utah.

Just as a Cali guy (french actually) it's give me and all other cali "could be gts" no reason to race GTS.

I ran SU for 5 years and can tell you that most of the SUs, would love to race in a better classed series like GTS.

Except GTS is an east cost only series.

So congrats I heard you just had your regional championship race at midOhio !!!

I had to make that joke

 

Just hopping that GTS managment could see this has an opportunity to grow to a national series, I heard you have free steaks dinner.

 

benny

 

 

Benny,

You say a lot for not knowing what you are talking about. What kind of leadership is that???? It's the kind that listens to the racers in his series. It's the kind that parks his own race car at the biggest event of the year to make sure the event runs smoothly for his group. It's the kind that has built the largest series in all of NASA without an ounce of help from NASA. It's the kind of leadership that makes decisions proactively instead of waiting until August 2009 and tries to throw an event together to keep the Championship fever burning.

 

Feel free to post in the GTS forum any time you please, but if you plan to attack me or anyone else, you better get your facts straight. When you build a race series that has 250+ entrants nationwide, then maybe you can question my leadership.

[bmw22]

Just to be clear, and rectify some erroneous facts, there were 5 comptetitors in GTS in SoCal this year:

 

http://socal.drivenasa.com/points/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

Yes, they didn't complete enough events to compete in Nationals, but why should they....

For the same reasons everyone in the east ran more than 5 races per season even before the Nationals existed.

 

In Rocky Mountain we had 20 different competitors this year:

 

http://www.wasabiraceteam.com/2008pointstandings.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

At least another 20 have competed in the RM region in prior years. This doesn't account for 944 Spec that can (and are willing to) super size to GTS...

 

Texas and RM regions are literaly stuck in the middle. GTS started in the east and is creeping west across the country. You guys just happen to be on the western front of GTS right now. Bad timing...that's all it is. You're doing a great job growing GTS in your region, but I have to look at the big picture. If 95% of the current GTSers east of the Mississippi aren't going to Utah, then I must do something to make sure the GTS continues to grow. If I just blindly commit GTS to Utah, what do you think would happen to during the two years back east? I've worked to hard(other folks too) since 2003 to get where we are. I really don't want to take a step or two backwards. Where should my loyalty be? To those that have supported GTS for years or to those that don't ven exist yet? As far as you guys in the middle of the country, I'll do what I can to help the growth continue.

 

In my opinion, NASA should have never had a National Championship. The other club couldn't get a true national field for theirs, and they are 50 years old. Instead, they should have held east and west divisional championships.

[Fred Crawford]

Mark,

I'm sure everyone truly appreciates all you've done for GTS and I aggree with your words. No disrespect to Benny, but why are we even responding to a Honda racer in GTS forum , I dont care what cars he owns. I am like John Mccain I don't know how many cars I own..... however I stay in my own backyard and mind my own business.

Again my feelings are that Nasa has been good to me and my family and I am fortunte that I can and will go to Miller, once for practice and once for Nationals even if I have to run in ST1 or 2 series. I will also follow GTS to any National event they do and will help out to pull it off if needed. Apparently other GTS regions have a very strong bond, more so than SEast group and I applaud that. I am worried it may send the signal that we are an eletus group.. not part of Nasa.

 

I am a believer of dancing with the one that brought ya..... and yes Mark I hear what your are saying....

 

Fred Crawford

 

 

Fc

[bmw22]

I am worried it may send the signal that we are an eletus group.. not part of Nasa.

 

Fred, thanks for your continued support of GTS. There is no need to worry about that. We are not the only race group in this postion. Also, I am working with NASA officials on this, they also understand the dilema here. Both parties agree that we need to keep GTS growing.

 

For the record, GTS Challenge is a seperate entity from NASA, but we choose to run all events with NASA. To date, it has been a good relationship and I'm hoping to continue on in that relationship as long as it remains good for NASA and GTS. It's my goal during the off season to make GTS bigger and better, and I'll be needed the help that you offered.

 

Mark

[944 cup]

Gentlemen:

 

Please excuse my interuption to this thread, but as oustsider here, it seems perfectly clear to me that GTS needs to pack their cars up and head out to Utah for Nationals in '09. From what I have read here, the 5 most compelling reasons are:

 

#5 - Benny spent "over $5,000 to go to Mid Ohio". (Can't have a Honda dude outspending racers in German cars)

 

#4 - GTS: "are more a PCA "type" than a racer type" . (Ouch, now it's a matter of pride)

 

#3 - "So.cal represented almost 60% of all H4 at this last national". ( Just too bad it's not the Japanese Touring Series rather then GTS or these 4 Hondas could make the difference)

 

#2 - Benny is the "guy that travel to belguim to run at SPA, and germany to run the nurburgring." Now those would be great tracks to have the GTS National Championships, in Europe.

 

And the #1 reason why GTS should go to Miller for Nationals:

 

#1 - "Benny feel like he should sell his street GT3 RS to not be put in the same basket as you (GTS) guys." Hey, no one should be the reason for someone selling his GT3 RS.

[bmw22]

Ok Dave....you convinced me!

[116svvh]

I have no problem with NASA moving the Nationals out west for a couple years. It's only fair. The problem is that there appear to be no GTS cars to compete against. That's it. If there were 50 west coast GTS racers lining up to take on the east coasters, I'd be there and would be crazy excited about it. I almost towed to MM last year for the PCA race but ended up doing Barber with the SE region instead. I don't have anything against the idea, it is just that GTS needs a chance to grow out there.

 

I have volunteered to take a well paid job as the GTS coordinator for CA. I am thinking maybe headquartered in Carmel by the Sea. I am still waiting to hear back about my salary request.