pushyandloose Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I was driving the black PTF RX-7 #38. Was this you? http://www.pakexp.com/blog/index.php/2008/09/11/nasa-championships-thursday-practice-3/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bongiovanni Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Yes that was me. Could I have left a lane for the Honda like I did for the BMW one turn earlier? Sure, but I saw the Honda backing off and not trying to get next to me, so I drove the line, or what I knew of it at that point, as taught to me by Jim Bishop, a Mid-Ohio instructor with 30 years experience. 1. It was the first practice day of the event. Practice, not qualifying. Many drivers, including myself had never been on the track before, and spent the whole day trying to learn the track and the flag stands. To be honest, I didn't even start trying to go fast until Saturday, practice is about learning how to be safe first and foremost. 2. That was about my fifth lap ever at Mid-Ohio, in a race car I'd never raced, on 5 year old 185/60R-13 Toyo RA-1 scrub tires, with a transmission that was only catching 3rd half the time. Sure my car was slow. I really don't understand how people can't get around slow cars. If the driver had not been following so close, he could have gotten a decent run coming out of the carousel. 3. The Honda never got next to me. I could hear him backing off, and saw that he wasn't sticking his nose in, and assumed that he was treating it as the mixed class practice session it was. If it was a qualifying session, I likely would have left him a lane...but it wasn't so I drove the line which is exactly what you are supposed to do. I'd like to hear other opinions on this, because it appears to me that I did what everyone expects...drive the line so the guy behind can pass without wondering what you are going to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Sure my car was slow. I really don't understand how people can't get around slow cars. Some guys seem to have an expectation that cars "in their way" will simply levitate or teleport themselves off the track so they can continue their hot lapping unimpeded. Oh, one more thing: way too many people confuse "fast driver" with "fast car." There are a lot of fast cars on the track with really slow drivers behind the wheel. Those are usually the ones who have the most trouble passing the "slow cars" with the fast drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackBaruth Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Oh, one more thing: way too many people confuse "fast driver" with "fast car." There are a lot of fast cars on the track with really slow drivers behind the wheel. Those are usually the ones who have the most trouble passing the "slow cars" with the fast drivers. If I recognize the video correctly, this is the Civic that was front-end-totaled Friday afternoon, spent Saturday on the frame rack until 1pm, missed qualifying, and drove from DFL (17th place) to 2nd in the Saturday PTE qualifying race in all of eight laps. Hard to believe that's all a matter of "fast car", but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOECAT Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 David, some folks don't understand that practice or a warmup is not the same mindset as qualifying or a race they only know how to keep the foot to the floor and think there the only one out there (GET OUT OF MY WAY) or get mad at the car in front of them and not sit back and maybe pickup a little better line or braking refrence or something. I know people that have been racing a longtime that still learn something new everytime they go out on the track. Some learn this with age and some the hard way at a cost to others. Racing is sure a thinking persons game if your always using your brain on the track you won't be rebuilding your car from a crash and miss qualifying on sat. from what happened on Friday. Most of the time anyway ! David sounds like i would've done the samething you did. Joe Catron Director of nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Hard to believe that's all a matter of "fast car", but you never know. The comment was more of a general observation, but after watching the video a couple of times, it definitely applies. The guy in the Honda totally blew his run through the carousel expecting the Mazda to just lift, get off line and let him run through instead of hanging back, getting a run coming out of the carousel, and easily driving by on the pit lane straight. That attitude that the "incident" was the other driver's fault is exactly what I was referring to. What I saw on the video looks to me like a guy who doesn't know how to manage mixed class traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackBaruth Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Maybe the Civic driver will interrupt the race meeting next year at Nationals to deliver a red-faced screaming speech on how people need to stop "weaving under green". That would be awesome. I have to agree with Joe and Matt on part of what they said, though. Your not very smart if your going to wreck you're car on Friday and then think that other people will move off there line for you're car. Why did you wreck you're car on Friday, Civic driver? People on here want to know for there information. Also, stop running up on other cars like Christian Klein in the LMP1 Peugeot. Nobody wants to hear your excuse that PTE was the second-slowest class in that race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushyandloose Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Wow, I'm amazed at what you guys construed from my simple post! I'd like to hear other opinions on this, because it appears to me that I did what everyone expects...drive the line so the guy behind can pass without wondering what you are going to do. I'm actually surprised that you immediately went on the defensive here. In fact, I wasn't soliciting an opinion on anything, just looking to connect you and your car, as we didn't meet formally. Any comments on our blog or the YouTube page were humourous for us, as all our recent on-track incidents involved only Mazdas, coincidentally. I certainly knew it was a practice day and it was obvious you weren't comfortable through that section, which is why I didn't pass--it wasn't necessary to put my car at risk. What shocked me, though, was that you were carrying, oh, probably about 20 mph less through the carousel than I typically do. Oh, one more thing: way too many people confuse "fast driver" with "fast car." There are a lot of fast cars on the track with really slow drivers behind the wheel. Those are usually the ones who have the most trouble passing the "slow cars" with the fast drivers. Actually, it's a double whammy with me: slow car and slow driver. I know, sucks to be me. If I recognize the video correctly, this is the Civic that was front-end-totaled Friday afternoon, spent Saturday on the frame rack until 1pm, missed qualifying, and drove from DFL (17th place) to 2nd in the Saturday PTE qualifying race in all of eight laps. That's mostly correct, Jack, except that timing and scoring shows a five lap race, not eight. Racing is sure a thinking persons game if your always using your brain on the track you won't be rebuilding your car from a crash and miss qualifying on sat. from what happened on Friday. Joe, let me explain something, so that you don't have to base your back-handed insults on assumptions: I didn't crash the car. We run a team car and my teammate had an unfortunate off in the rain on Friday--I think while running top three. Regardless, I spent Saturday taking it to a shop in Columbus and having it repaired. With tremendous effort by everyone on the team, had it safe and ready for Saturday's race. And, yeah, I did go from DFL to 2nd in that race. In 5 laps. And set fast lap. Just to be clear. The guy in the Honda totally blew his run through the carousel expecting the Mazda to just lift, get off line and let him run through instead of hanging back, getting a run coming out of the carousel, and easily driving by on the pit lane straight. That attitude that the "incident" was the other driver's fault is exactly what I was referring to. What I saw on the video looks to me like a guy who doesn't know how to manage mixed class traffic. Actually, Matt, you're wrong. Like I noted above, I was surprised that the Mazda was carrying an easy 20 mph less through the carousel than I normally do. Thus, I had to lift mid corner. It's simple as that, but, again, I didn't post this video to make any point, just a connection for me between Dave and the car. And I think that's one of the things discussion forums facilitate--connection and communication between people of similar interests. Except here it seems to have turned into a big ****-swinging show for some reason. And my 17th to 2nd in Saturday's race clearly demonstrates that I can't manage traffic! Maybe the Civic driver will interrupt the race meeting next year at Nationals to deliver a red-faced screaming speech on how people need to stop "weaving under green". That would be awesome. I've been known to pull some crazy stuff in drivers' meetings! I'm Canadian, after all--and we all have the fire in the eyes! I have to agree with Joe and Matt on part of what they said, though. Your not very smart if your going to wreck you're car on Friday and then think that other people will move off there line for you're car. I didn't post the video to highlight a case of bad driving, like I said above, but I think the video demonstrates that I had no intention of putting my car at risk during a practice session. It was simply unfortunate for me that I had to end a flyer like this. Since we were playing with our new camera system, this was a great highlight from that session to show our fans, friends and family who couldn't be at the track that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedPak Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Not to throw fuel on the fire or anything, but I just thought I'd clarify that it was indeed my amazingly elite rain driving skillz that hurt the car in Friday's race. 3 of us went off on the last lap in quick succession into china beach, but there was no 'on track' contact. (one of those 3 being the national champion) As per the incident in the video, its pretty easy to find fault wherever one chooses to. I am sure the posting of the video was NOT to call anyone out or point blame, but since thats the way its been taken lets look at it in context to the rest of the weekend. The video is from thrusday's 3rd practice session, by this point you only have a short friday shake down before the first qualifying session. Its reasonable to expect people to be up to speed, and if not, at least be aware of their mirrors. Now from the comments made it is apparent that the rx7 driver WAS aware of his mirrors, and that is a feather in his cap because so many drivers were not. That said, he did move offline to let the green car pass, and it seemed that he was still not quite comfortable with that section of the track, so getting up along side him or sticking the nose of the civic in, probably wouldn't have been the smartest move. What the rx7 driver has said over and over is that he shouldn't move offline (which he did just one turn earlier) and that the civic should have made an aggressive move. Being that it was practice that probably wasn't a good idea either. Now back to context, by this point we had already experienced a few choice decisions made by slower cars not watching their mirrors, and so the frustration at this incident was magnified by everything else. (here's an example of an earlier incident: ) In the end its just one of those things. I do take some offense at the notion that we were driving too aggressive for practice, or had the 'wrong' mindset. Obviously you can't WIN practice, but we're not out there to sunday drive either. Every driver has his or her own use of a particular practice session, for some its just learning the track, for others its testing a setup change, or trying a new line etc. For us it was trying to find the last small bits of time we needed to run at the front of our class. Our team enjoys a good reputation for heads up, courteous driving, but at the same time we are in it to finish as best we can. Finally our car is not the 'fast' car some people think it is. Its a 20 year old civic that has never been a street car, and whose chassis is about as loose as paris hilton. Anyway, I didn't want to go off on a rant, and again I don't think the video was linked to be inflammatory, but as team owner I couldn't let some of those comments go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninetyfourintegra Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpnwiz Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Is it just me or does anyone else find some serious irony in SpeedPak's "as loose as Paris Hilton" line and the pic that Ron posted? Just saying. My $0.02: The line taught from the school is to basically go straight at the entrance to the carousel, and then cut hard right at the last second. It looks/feels/seems like you are waaay past the apex but it works. I've been on the giving and receiving end of this line ... in the front you are just "running the line"... but from the back it sure seems like the guy in front is slamming the door on you. That said, I don't really get the angst at the video and comments, etc.. I see both viewpoints here. Can't anyone else? I don't think it's really that big of a deal. It was practice and no metal got bent. Patrick playing diplomat for once (just don't bring the French Canadians up again, please) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushyandloose Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 (just don't bring the French Canadians up again, please) Sorry, I am French Canadian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpnwiz Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I *know*, and there you go, you brought it up. But you hide your aççèntê oh sorry, just choked for a second. But you hide your accent so well!! And at least you didn't punt ME off track! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninetyfourintegra Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Here you go Patrick, is this one "warm and fuzzy" and "cute enough" for you: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackBaruth Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Patrick playing diplomat for once Okay. Somebody pick up the phone, dial 911, tell them that Patrick has been kidnapped, and someone's using his computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pushyandloose Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I *know*, and there you go, you brought it up. But you hide your aççèntê oh sorry, just choked for a second. But you hide your accent so well!! And at least you didn't punt ME off track! Keep it up and you're next, buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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