Newest MW/GL GTS2 build

[cosm3os]

HOW TO BUILD A GTS CAR

 

First, get yourself a wife that will put up with this crap. When we were dating, she got me a set of K-1s with R-comps for my b-day. When we got married, she got me a HANS for my wedding gift. She's a keeper.

 

If you do this to the car at Mid O running TT (BTW, pic is AFTER a lot of work was done--can you say "Tail light, meet back glass") . . .

 

 

She's gonna get a lot less enthusiastic (especially when she sees the bill). Go buy one of these:

 

 

Okay, so you are ready to make the jump from TT to W2W. You are gonna have to buy the wife one of these:

 

 

Okay, now she's content as long as she can dress them up every once in awhile. So I can get started on the rest of the build.

 

For the TT build, we gutted it down to 2820 with a roll bar. TCK D/A coilovers. Metal bushings everywhere. Motor is still stock, including the airbox. Sorry, lost the pics of that work.

 

Goal for the GTS build: I figure stock whp (215) means I gotta run about 3190 lbs, which is right were we ran it in TT. Figure I gotta remove what I'm puting back in in cage/fire. I'm in the process of removing easy stuff--gutted doors, much of the wiring, tar, and A/C. Don't have to go nuts, but don't want to have to do it later after the cage is in.

 

Pics of the progress (mostly for Hornswoggler) Isn't it sad that this is the same car that 2 years ago I had to train my child never to touch the paint, and now it's a storage shelf?:

 

 

Plan is to have it ready for cage work in January. I'll take suggestions for a cage that is (in this order): safe, flexible (add stuff easily/resale), performance.

 

Thanks for the look!

[Eric W.]

Awesome Kyle!

 

I think though youre going to find yourself well under 3190 when youre done

 

GTS3 baby!

[scottbm3]

Awesome Kyle!

 

I think though youre going to find yourself well under 3190 when youre done

 

GTS3 baby!

 

Yeah, when my car was still an I-Stock car(BMWCR) it had about 150 lbs added to make 3175lbs for the class. Plus that weight is so hard on the car, brakes and handling.

 

 

-Scott B.

[cosm3os]

Yah, I'm not thrilled about the weight, but I don't want to double my budget to get the engine mods needed to run mid pack in 3. We'll see what it weighs when I'm done and go from there.

[ELEPHANT1]

Kyle, don't listen to those pesky GTS3 guys, they just want more people to try and pick on. Bullies. ; )

 

Come join the GTS2 ranks and add to the classic E36 M3 vs E30 M3 war. ; )

 

Cheers.

[cosm3os]

You e30 guys want us in 2 so you can laugh as you watch our tires and brakes go away and then wave as you breeze by in the last lap!

[ELEPHANT1]

You e30 guys want us in 2 so you can laugh as you watch our tires and brakes go away and then wave as you breeze by in the last lap!

[RSCoupe]

Yah, I'm not thrilled about the weight, but I don't want to double my budget to get the engine mods needed to run mid pack in 3...

 

Engine mods? I believe the two main front runners in Great Lakes Region (Scotty and Sean) ran stock motors from junkyards.

[ELEPHANT1]

Yah, I'm not thrilled about the weight, but I don't want to double my budget to get the engine mods needed to run mid pack in 3...

 

Engine mods? I believe the two main front runners in Great Lakes Region (Scotty and Sean) ran stock motors from junkyards.

 

They both have cams of some type. In GTS3 you're likely going to need 250ish RWHP to compete. The torque of the 3.2l is generally better and a known advantage vs the 3.0l as well. Though without going back I forget if Kyle is running a 3.0 or a 3.2. Rob Worrell showed that a heavy E36 is competitive in GTS2 this year. I've been trying to convince a friend of mine to run his 3.2l in GTS2 but even without cams he has 239RWHP so he's not excited about the weight he'd have to run. And he's not taking stuff off the motor.

 

Cheers.

[cosm3os]

Motor's a stock 3.2. Just not gonna spend the money to get down to 2400 or bump up the motor to 280 whp. My qualifiying times (comparing my TT times with GTS2 the last 2 years) will be good, but as everyone has pointed out, the issue will be the pounding it takes over 20 minutes. Gonna have to make myself a rolling road block!!!

[scottbm3]

Yah, I'm not thrilled about the weight, but I don't want to double my budget to get the engine mods needed to run mid pack in 3...

 

Engine mods? I believe the two main front runners in Great Lakes Region (Scotty and Sean) ran stock motors from junkyards.

 

Mine: 3.2l S52 junkyard motor with mild Schrick cams and off the shelf Conforti Shark software OBD-2 248WHP/2850lbs. W/Driver, No internal motor mods or headwork.

 

Seans: 3.2l S52 junkyard motor with mild Schrick cams OBD-1 conversion chipped. Restricted to 255Whp/2880lbs. W/Driver, No interal motor mods or headwork.

 

 

-Scott B.

[cosm3os]

Yah, I'm not thrilled about the weight, but I don't want to double my budget to get the engine mods needed to run mid pack in 3...

 

Engine mods? I believe the two main front runners in Great Lakes Region (Scotty and Sean) ran stock motors from junkyards.

 

Mine: 3.2l S52 junkyard motor with mild Schrick cams and off the shelf Conforti Shark software OBD-2 248WHP/2850lbs. W/Driver, No internal motor mods or headwork.

 

Seans: 3.2l S52 junkyard motor with mild Schrick cams OBD-1 conversion chipped. Restricted to 255Whp/2880lbs. W/Driver, No interal motor mods or headwork.

 

 

-Scott B.

 

You forgot to add "Drivers heavily modified"

 

Hmm, very interesting.

[Damon in STL]

Woo Hoo! Another GTS2 car in the Midwest!

 

I was getting lonely out there!

 

Kyle, great to see you taking the plunge.

 

Damon in STL

[Hornswoggler]

Looks good Kyle!!

 

This thread brings up an interesting question:

 

Which is preferred for a power-to-weight class? Low weight/low power, or high weight/high power?

 

With some typical bolt-ons, you can gain some power on the S52. Suppose you went with intake, chip, exhaust, M50 intake manifold, ASC delete, and underdrive pullies... you could be around 235 whp easily. @ 235 whp, you could get the weight down to around 2,600 lbs w/ DOT tires, or 2,800 lbs with slicks. Very possible, IMO.

 

Or with the Eurosport OBD-II cam kit (upgrade that I have) for ~$3,200 or so, and have 245 rwhp or so. Cam install will cost $500+, unless you DIY or have friends. I wouldn't call it cheap, but its not like a valve job or brain surgery. My target weight will be around 2,700 lbs for GTS3. Maybe that lighter weight will be easier on consumables?? I understand the concept of being competitive in a slower class, but I fight internally with a drive to be faster!!

 

Plus, if I can get my car done and a make some races, we could go toe-to-toe next year! Midwest seems heavier with GTS2, where GL has more GTS3. With all the cross-over events on the MW calendar, I am pretty sure there will be some GTS3 action.

 

Either way, should be a fun time next year!

[scottbm3]

Looks good Kyle!!

 

This thread brings up an interesting question:

 

Which is preferred for a power-to-weight class? Low weight/low power, or high weight/high power?

 

With some typical bolt-ons, you can gain some power on the S52. Suppose you went with intake, chip, exhaust, M50 intake manifold, ASC delete, and underdrive pullies... you could be around 235 whp easily. @ 235 whp, you could get the weight down to around 2,600 lbs w/ DOT tires, or 2,800 lbs with slicks. Very possible, IMO.

 

Or with the Eurosport OBD-II cam kit (upgrade that I have) for ~$3,200 or so, and have 245 rwhp or so. Cam install will cost $500+, unless you DIY or have friends. I wouldn't call it cheap, but its not like a valve job or brain surgery. My target weight will be around 2,700 lbs for GTS3. Maybe that lighter weight will be easier on consumables?? I understand the concept of being competitive in a slower class, but I fight internally with a drive to be faster!!

 

Plus, if I can get my car done and a make some races, we could go toe-to-toe next year! Midwest seems heavier with GTS2, where GL has more GTS3. With all the cross-over events on the MW calendar, I am pretty sure there will be some GTS3 action.

 

Either way, should be a fun time next year!

 

Remember that it is weight with the driver. Assuming a driver and gear combo of around 170lbs as an

example your car would need to weigh around 2430 with fuel etc., even with exotic doors, hood, trunk, lexan etc. and a lot of work, it would be hard if not impossible to get a E36 M3 down to that weight. Plus you need a buffer built in to make sure if you dyno higher your covered on the weight side. 2700lbs with driver will be a stretch in my opinion.

 

-Scott B.

[Hornswoggler]

 

Remember that it is weight with the driver. Assuming a driver and gear combo of around 170lbs as an

example your car would need to weigh around 2430 with fuel etc., even with exotic doors, hood, trunk, lexan etc. and a lot of work, it would be hard if not impossible to get a E36 M3 down to that weight. Plus you need a buffer built in to make sure if you dyno higher your covered on the weight side. 2700lbs with driver will be a stretch in my opinion.

 

-Scott B.

 

Scott, I was thinking 2,700 minus 170 = 2,530 lbs. Would that be pretty tough with an e36? Maybe I need a small bump with sunbelt or evosport cams.

[scottbm3]

 

Remember that it is weight with the driver. Assuming a driver and gear combo of around 170lbs as an

example your car would need to weigh around 2430 with fuel etc., even with exotic doors, hood, trunk, lexan etc. and a lot of work, it would be hard if not impossible to get a E36 M3 down to that weight. Plus you need a buffer built in to make sure if you dyno higher your covered on the weight side. 2700lbs with driver will be a stretch in my opinion.

 

-Scott B.

 

Scott, I was thinking 2,700 minus 170 = 2,530 lbs. Would that be pretty tough with an e36? Maybe I need a small bump with sunbelt or evosport cams.

 

Collin,

 

Unless you plan on spending a bunch of money on LTW body panels and such I think it would be really hard. That's assuming you have a stripped down LTW exhaust, lite wheels, Lite brakes, lite battery, and stripped chassis to start with... You really want to come in about 75lbs. over what you think, just in case the dyno is off a bit that weekend. You always need a fudge factor... The cams would defintetly help. Just my opinion, others may differ.

 

 

-Scott B.

[RSCoupe]

...Assuming a driver and gear combo of around 170lbs as an

example...

 

Oh man, I haven't been 170lbs since high school!

I'm so glad it's a HP/WT classification system...

[Hornswoggler]

Thanks Scott, I'll plan on adding a lil more power.

[Trevor57]

All I know, is that High weight/ Low power wins you nothing.

[Jason Weaver]

The E36 M3 can be very competitive in GTS2....although the 968's seem to be the strongest in results..I think this is the correct tool for this class....plus the 3.2 offers more area under the curve (torque) than the 3.0 does.....

 

We have 3 E36 M3's in the mid atlantic that do well....

[JSG1901]

Assuming you're running at the class minimum power-to-weight ratio, I think the advantage always goes to the lower weight car rather than to the one with higher horsepower. Power-to-weight only really affects one aspect of vehicle dynamics: acceleration.

 

Given equal p2w numbers, two otherwise equal cars, one with lots of weight and power and one with lower weight and lower power, will accelerate exactly the same until you take air resistance into account. As you get to higher speeds where the extra horsepower (if it's a lot more horsepower) will change the equation a bit in terms of overcoming air friction, there will be a slight advantage to the higher horsepower car. But if the difference in power is not huge, this is probably a trivial advantage.

 

More to the point, there is very little time on the track spent at speeds where this advantage might do you any good.

 

On the other hand, for everything else that happens on the track, lower weight is a clear advantage. Lower weight helps in cornering, braking and left-right transitions. Lower weight causes less wear on consumables. Lower weight/power probably uses a little less gas (meaning you can start a little lighter for a long race). Finally, lower weight (and the improved cornering it provides) means you can come off the corners a little faster, effectively nullifying a lot of the potential straight-line-speed advantage of the higher-horsepower cars.

 

At least, that's my theory.

 

Given the option to go either way, I'd go for low weight rather than high horsepower every time.

[Enzo]

Also - look at weight distribution. Given everything else equal (power/weight), the car with better weight distribution will be faster. You cant beat the 944/968's here. With transaxle in the rear, they are basically 50%/50% with driver...

[cosm3os]

Shit, Trevor. That's the hardest I've laughed at a post in a long time!

 

I'm 230, so I'm shooting for a wt of the car to be around 2900--real easy to do and costs $0. I expect I'll be way under that and have to ballast up.

 

For the experts (and Scott ), what would be a reasonably competitive competition wt on a GTS3 car with stock power (okay, I've got underdrive pullies and a ltw fly)?

[Eric W.]

Kyle,

 

I ran all last year in GTS3 with only 225rwhp. Did pretty well too. Setup is a key factor also.

 

If you have a tad too much power, you can also run restrictor plates.