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2005 rules-open up AIX?


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Another question that has arisen is if we should perhaps loosen the rules to allow more mods in AIX and try to attract some cars that have Speedvision WC-style modifications that don't fit into the AIX rules. We also have thought about creating another class for GT1-style ponycars that would bring them into the fold. Your thoughts?

 

-JWL

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As a racer - I agree, add classes -

 

AI/U for unlimited - GT1, WC, SpeedVision, etc.

AI/V for Vintage (pre-'79) - Any older American made vehicle -

 

But both present dilemmas:

AI/U - is it open to NASCAR style autos as well?

AI/V - wheelbase is unlimited? (pintos, mustang II, vega, etc.)

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Speedvision WC-style modifications

 

Other than moving the firewall and engine back and notching the frame for suspension clearance, I’d be curious to know what they can do that we can’t.

 

With that said, the Speed WC cars run nearly five seconds faster than the fastest AIX cars in the east for every 1:30 lap. And that is on RA1s. Obviously the day someone brings a car like John Young's WC Saleen SR to a AI/AIX race is the day that everybody running in AIX becomes totally non-competitive.

 

Picking up WC rules would, in my opinion, necessitate a major engine setback (up to 12") on every AIX car in the field. The downside of this is that the cars would then be restricted from running in just about any series accept WC. I personally like the GT1 option but I am not sure how much participation we would see.

 

Paul Bird

96 Cobra AIX

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I think either opening up AIX to allow the ex-WC cars play. In fact I think that anything should go in AIX short of a tube frame car. There are a number of these type of cars out there with no where to run. I'd prefer to see AIX opened up rather than create another class if I had a choice though as too many classes dilutes the fields and confuses both of the spectators.

 

I think the vintage class is an interesting idea as it seems that all of the vintage iron that races seem to run AIX because they use hp as a compensation for handling. Not ripping on anyones cars but it seems like they all have big motors. I'd try to limit it to around 400 rwhp if possible. How many cars do we think would actually participate in this class and what would NASA offer these drivers that other vintage organizations don't? Just something to think about.

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My thoughts on AI/X vs AI/U were:

 

AI/X - someone takes their stock american car to the extreme

AI/U - someone starts with a tube frame and adds a body to look like an american car

 

The same - only different approaches to achieve the end result.

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As a competitor, I don't like the idea that we would allow engine set-back. It would require anyone currently in AIX to do some serious re-work of their cars, including cage work, to keep their cars competitive.

 

However, the AI/X promoter in me says it's a great idea, so I'd propose a compromise:

 

Anyone running in AIX with a relocated engine / firewall must run with 100lbs of ballast in the passenger seat area (defined to being within the four stock seat mount holes) or further forward. This gives them a distinct penalty, but still allows them to run. It's important to define the amount of ballast penalty, as well as the location. The ballast must be able to be unbolted so it can be weighed.

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Oh, there must be a published limit as well on HOW MUCH set-back is allowed. 12" from the stock position is probably in the ballpark. Otherwise someone will have a rear-engine car with 100# of ballast.....

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DAMN YOU WHITEHEAD!!!!! That was my idea!

 

Would you want them to add 100#s no matter what they weigh or raise the minimum weight by 100#s (2700 lbs to 2800 lbs)? Speaking of that I have NEVER seen an AIX car on the scales out here even with the 2700 lbs minimum weight!

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I think they should have to carry 100# of ballast. Otherwise, cars which are already overweight (all of them that I know of) would not have a penalty.

 

Oh, did I mention that this should be AIX only?!?

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I don't know if you guys race against WC cars much, but I do. I consider my car currently competative in AIX. I will NOT be competative against WC cars. Ever. A Corvette has so many advantages over Mustangs it isn't even funny. The center of gravity, coefficient of drag, overall height of car, mucho $'s of carbon fiber, professional cages, $2000 shocks (per corner), wheel base, etc, etc.

 

I need 150 horsepower more than they have to even get close to them. The pole at RA was 2:14 this year. That is a Trans AM time. My car is quick and I only run a 2:25. 11 seconds! The club racer WILL NOT COMPETE!

 

If this rule goes through, my car will be for sale, and I will buy a used WC Corvette or Audi.

 

I also do not feel like ripping the fire wall out. That would entail moving the seat back, the pedals, dash, steering, roll cage, 3rd link, cutting driveshaft, shifter, some wiring, and figuring were to take out 300 pounds out of a Mustang that is already fairly well stripped. It would be easier to make a new car, and it wouldn't be AIX, it would be an AI or AS legal car.

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So, since the firewall move rule is really the only reason a WC car is illegal in AIX, should we keep it in place just to keep the WC cars out? I'm not asking being sarcastic here - I'm serious.

 

As for Trans-Am cars, they simply should be nowhere near us. If there are that many that really want to run, make them AI/U - unlimited. They should NOT be racing against the AI/X cars.

 

Also, be prepared to black-flag Chris if we allow Trans-Am cars. There will certainly be large amounts of smoke coming from his ears when he realizes that he is not in the overall lead in an American Iron race......

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Also, be prepared to black-flag Chris if we allow Trans-Am cars. There will certainly be large amounts of smoke coming from his ears when he realizes that he is not in the overall lead in an American Iron race......

 

I won't be following it, I'll be driving it.

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What is really amazing is that the WC cars already weigh 3000 lbs. and I 'think' that they have to maintain a stock wheelbase, 101.3 for the Saleen SR.

 

The WC cars have clearly figured something out that we in AI/AIX have not - aerodynamics.

 

Paul Bird

96 Cobra AIX

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If there is consideration to allowing WC cars then AIX should be allowed to use the cage for purposes of mounting suspension components. i.e. remove shock towers and mount struts or SLA to cage structure.

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I don't see the benefit in opening up the AIX rules to allow WC type cars. All it does is open the door for people with major fundage to come in and dominate the class with new cars, while the existing guys would most likely have to get a new car altogether to either run with them or go down to AI.

 

If you really want to attract these cars, make an unlimited class and let them go at it. I'm guessing that you'll have so few entries that the disparity between WC, GT1, NASCAR, etc. will be irrelevant. Are there any really serious competitors in NASA GTSU?

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Yes.

 

Mustangs and Camaros are legal in AI, and so are Cadillac CTS-Vs and Pontiac GTOs. While the GTO isn't quite competitive in Speed GT yet, it would be up front in most AIX fields. The Cadillac and John Young's SR would dominate. Granted that Max Angelelli probably wouldn't show up to a NASA weekend, but I bet John would. Steve Carvajal has a WC Saleen gathering dust, so does Paul Brown and a few others, all of whom have expressed interest in racing with us if their cars were legal.

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I say open it up to OLDER World challenge cars. If the engine is setback give them a minimum front %. I would like to see them retain most of the stock sheet metal, Paul Browns car would not be legal (sorry Paul) but I think Monroe’s car would, correct me if I am wrong

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I say open it up to OLDER World challenge cars. If the engine is setback give them a minimum front %. I would like to see them retain most of the stock sheet metal

 

This is an excellent point. I think the whole reason for opening up AIX is to bring car count up and increase the field of CMC/AI/AIX cars on any given weekend to a full 40 or so competitors. There are a ton of old ex-WC cars out there like Monroe's who would love to come play but can't due to engine setback, front clip suspension work and other rules restrictions! AIX isn't opening up it's rules so Max Angelelli can run with us, it's so the dusty old undervalued WC, IMSA and AS cars of yesteryear sitting in garages with engine setbacks and other mods are allowed in.

 

Howsabout something like...."AIX- Pre-1998 purpose built cars meeting the following series rules for their era are allowed to run in AIX..."

 

-=- Todd

 

PS- How's that Director Disclaimer go...."This post was as a Racer and not as a Director. The views described here may or may not represent the views of NASA or any NASA affiliates herein."

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We have quite a few of these:

Snow%20Shoe%202004%20002_jpg.jpg

 

Snow%20Shoe%202004%20138_jpg.jpg

 

Basically GT1 cars that are about 2500 lbs - it would be hard to enforce a weight penalty - they are really an unlimited class.

 

Don't even get me started on these:

 

Snow%20Shoe%202004%20105_jpg.jpg

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I think "those, and those and those" are too much for American Iron Racing.

 

None of those cars "started" life as an American Iron car. Basic concept has to be that the cars once were American Iron production cars, then AIX rules should stipulate what you can do to them.

 

No going backwards and creating your own Mustangs. Tom Gloy Mustangs are just a tad too much for AIX IMO.

 

-=- Todd

Posted as a racer for the racers...not representing the views of a NASA Director.

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I am open to the idea of the WC cars running with us but I am ignorant about the real differences. Could someone educate me (with a link).

 

Engine setback (within reason) doesn't bother me.

 

Front clip modifications do worry me but I dont have the tech to back up my worries.

 

I think any AI car X or otherwise should have started life as a production car. No tube frames (GT1?).

 

John

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