Members Jim P. Posted September 15, 2004 Members Share Posted September 15, 2004 I would like to see if there is enough interest in AI/V - American Iron Vintage class - Pre 1979 cars only - to give AI a Vintage Trans Am look Many of the vintage cars want more places to race, they are usually limited to vintage parts and/or some type of racing pedigree for their cars, hopefully this will encourage more aftermarket support for classic cars and bring more to the track as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HistoricMustang Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Having run with American Iron for two seasons in an early model Mustang ('65) the development of AI/V would be in the spirit of road racing with different classes on the track at the same time, AI, AIX and AI/V. Being one of the few that has spent years doing the historic/vintage races and also the American Iron series, it is a natural to develop a series for the early models in AI plus it would help the on track car count. A well prepared early model can be very competitive with the late models. Lets work toward getting five or six early models at each event in the AIX format and then break these cars into a AI/V class. Not a different race, but a different class on track with AI and AIX. The boys running over at HSR in the "Muscle Car Challenge" would be a great group to invite in for an event. Gary, Tim, Doc, Craig, John, Brian and the rest. Are you listening? Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I want to see these guys on the track in the worst way, but I don't know if a distinct class is the way to do it. Let's talk to them, and find out why they are NOT coming over now, since the rules allow them. Maybe offer them a free entry or two to get them hooked. I'm happy to pay another $30 in entry fee in an event, if it means NASA can give away a few entries to cars like that which might otherwise not run. In the long run, it's the right thing to do for the class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mberglo Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 From a spectator's point of view, I like the idea. It would be great to see all vintage cars competing against one another. Anything that gets more vintage cars to the track is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDR_John Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 From a spectator's point of view, I like the idea. It would be great to see all vintage cars competing against one another. The only thing better than seeing the vintage cars race eachother, is seeing the vintage cars beat the modern cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMan Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I am also anxious to see more vintage Trans-Am type iron on the track..its as cool as it gets ..Im not a competitor, but perhaps a reason for the paucity of vintage cars is the cost of repair in paint-trading events....I am working to get my 67 ready for 2005 in opentrack/HPDE, but I would hesitate to rub fenders when its costly to fix....more costly than fixing, say, a Fox-body.....is this an accurate statement? ...now if someone wants to throw away their money and sponsor me, I'll endanger the AIV field every chance I get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff F Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Do it. I would love to see more old iron out there. A few recommendations: *Let the vintage cars run cages that are more in tune with what the vintage/historic groups require. This would allow more cars that are genuinely historic, or built to vintage rules.*Carefully select the max tire size to accomodate the vintage cars. I don't think you'll see too many '65 Mustangs with 275's. If so let 'em run AI.*Make sure that any weight or power rules are consistent with the existing vintage classes. There is a big opportunity here, especially in the Northeast, where a lot of the groups require that the cars be not only vintage, but historic; i.e. having actual race history. I bet there are a lot of people who would love to run and old car, but don't have the $ to spend on a car with a race history. I know of someone who is building a "vintage" legal mustang for track-day type stuff who is a little tuned off by the historic snobs... but would probably race if this class were avaialble to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr42ai Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 On the west coast there is a Vintage car leading the AIX championship. I don’t want to see a new class so how about giving the vintage cars a 8.5 to 1 rule for AI, they still need to run Toyo's with a max of 275's.This will need to be revised if they are running a Griggs or TCP suspension but its just a starting point. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I want to see these guys on the track in the worst way, but I don't know if a distinct class is the way to do it. Let's talk to them, and find out why they are NOT coming over now, since the rules allow them. I agree with Scott. We invited a local vintage Trans Am race group to run with us in a few weeks at TWS and so far we're not getting a lot of responses. Many of the folks we spoke with are itching to get rid of their 15" wheels and vintage equipment, but are afraid it's a case of "no turning back". I think most of them just need to be "pushed into the pool" to see how awesome the AI waters are At least for 2005, I think there should be only 3 distinct American Iron classes...CMC, AI and AIX. -=- Todd PS- Hows it go....This opinion is as a Racer and not as a Director. The views expressed herein may or may not be the views of NASA or any NASA affiliates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim P. Posted September 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted September 16, 2004 I want to see these guys on the track in the worst way, but I don't know if a distinct class is the way to do it. Let's talk to them, and find out why they are NOT coming over now, since the rules allow them. Maybe offer them a free entry or two to get them hooked. I'm happy to pay another $30 in entry fee in an event, if it means NASA can give away a few entries to cars like that which might otherwise not run. In the long run, it's the right thing to do for the class. We do that already in the SE, the biggest objection we hear is that they have to be 'period correct' or 'vintage correct' - which means lousy brakes/suspensions and cast iron blocks/heads that were only available in the era of the vehicle. Not exactly combinations that are competitive in AI/AIX. We could probably pull in 10+ more cars per event if we had a class for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilson7 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Jim - If I'm not mistaken as a NASA Director you can just make a class can't you? Problem solved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim P. Posted September 16, 2004 Author Members Share Posted September 16, 2004 Jim - If I'm not mistaken as a NASA Director you can just make a class can't you? Problem solved! Mark- It would be nice to have the approval of all the racers as well. I need to add to my signature like Adam & Todd - posted as a racer and not a director.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95CobraR Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I've been racing in vintage for 14 years (next month). I've only raced in three NASA events and enjoyed the guys, the cars, and the track time. I plan to run NASA-SE next year regardless of what class I am assigned (unless tech throws me out). You may get more vintage cars if you added a vintage class. Some guys will not enter unless they think they can win their class. Other will enter just to enjoy the track time. You have alot to offer: 1) two day weekend events with plenty of track time 2) very well organized events 3) safe racing 4) none of the hassles of SCCA 5) Rd Atl 6) a school that assures a continual influx of new racers 7) an affordable race class (CMC) IMO, your biggest challenge is getting the word out on the benefits of NASA. Perhaps NASA hdq's can help? I think NASA should be getting more cars in all of the classes. NASA has a great plan. I just don't think enough people realize the benefits of joining this group. If you can get more cars, the sponsors will follow. Vintage is, in part, successful because they have brought sponsors to the racing organization. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95CobraR Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Vinage racing has 4 different organizations in the south. Most have rules that require a car to be "period correct". Some will allow you to run without correctness but will bump you up a class. Some will not let you race unless your car if it is within their rules. SVRA requires you to run bias-ply tires that fit into the wheel well (no flares), correct wheel sizes, correct iron heads, no full rockers, correct tranny, correct brakes (sometimes very scary), and no strokers. HSR rules are less strict. I've talked with several vintage guys that plan to race a few NASA events next year. Some will run big bore. Some want to run in the small bore class. They didn't run this year because they were not aware of the opportunity, or they were racing points (in HSR they offer a Rolex [a sponsor] watch to the winners). DJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Midwestern Council has a Vintage/Historic run group at all their races. Most are cars that run with VSCDA and do not have to have a pedigree. Lots of clone cars. However, both these groups have a 13/13 rule that may keep these kind of cars from running with a "fully Competitive" run group. Some Vintage guys do run with the competitive groups, but not the real pretty cars! Sidney Franklin Bloomington, IL AGS/AI #64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95CobraR Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 A well prepared early model can be very competitive with the late models. Lets work toward getting five or six early models at each event in the AIX format and then break these cars into a AI/V class. Henry, I disagree. A "period correct" car cannot compete with a late model. My stock SN95 can turn the same lap time at Rd Atl as my full race vintage car. A "cheater" early model with a good driver could possibly run close to a late model. You'd need big tires, big modern brakes, rack and pinion, an aftermarket suspension (like Global West), a stroker with aluminum heads, an aftermarket tranny, and a wallet full of money. Hey, if we could work on a guy in Hephzibah to come back that would help add a car. P/S I guess you knew Brian/Carl sold their car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I'd agree that an authentic race car will probably not run with the AI cars. But just like the AI cars, modern updates to chassis/suspension and brakes will be required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I completely disagree adding ANY classes whatsoever. I believe we should equalize classses via whatever means deamed necessary (weight - minimum or rewards weight, HP, tires, fuel, brakes whatever) I do not want to see a million classes with 1 or 2 cars in it. We all want to race, but diluting the racer pool is a bad idea. I would actually like to see less classes, and closer competition in each class. If someone is not competative, or not willing to make there car competative, that is there chioce to run in the back, or run HPDE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Chris- You bring up an interesting point - Rewards Weight. Want to start another topic with that question..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I will add it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAI Racing Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 I think that the AIV idea is pretty awesome, although I would guess that the biggest concern from the vintage guys is going to be the perception that American Iron is a "full contact" race series. As for perfomance, I would think that a well prepared and well driven vintage car would be competitive with an AI or AIX car. I believe that the AIX lap record at Willow Springs is in the low 1:29 area while the lap record for VARA A/S (vintage Trans Am with out the brass tag) is in the mid 1:28s. I would suggest that if AIV was to be added, that the vintage rules followed by the majority of organizations be the template for administrative ease. Most organizations follow the 1972 GCR to keep the playing field somewhat level. Tires would be a significant sticking point. Most vintage guys run on treaded race tires not on DOT tires. I would suggest that guys that want to run big wheels on their old car should be pushed into one of the existing AI classes while the AIV concept remain focused on keeping the rubber that the vintage guys are accustom to. Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 With the advent of new bodies in white for the vintage crowd (Hot Rod mag Oct 04) would a reproduction 69 Camaro or a 67 Mustang be legal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jim P. Posted September 20, 2004 Author Members Share Posted September 20, 2004 I saw that! I am excited! - (Hot Rod mag Oct 04) I don't see why it wouldn't be legal in AI/V ? Provided it met all other rules regarding the class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAI Racing Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 New bodies! Bitchen! And then you could hang one of those aftermarket subframes under it with the C4 or C5 Vette suspesion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDR_John Posted September 20, 2004 Share Posted September 20, 2004 Being one of the vintage guys, I personally have no interest in running a vintage class. If there was enough interest from others vintage guys then I say bring them on. But I will continue to run the regular AIX class. Sean's idea about a tire/wheel restriction for vintage makes some sence to me too. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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