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2005 rules - wheel flares


swhiteh3

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Okay, someone was going to start this one, so I'll throw in my hat.

 

It seems that the current ruling is that anything can be done with stock material, and I think this needs to spelled out. Here's the proposal I spelled out on cc.com:

 

"AI cars may flare their fenders by bending, stretching, cutting slits into, and welding filler material into the stock OEM fender material. Fenders must remain entirely steel, with the exception of Bondo-type filler material. Alternate material flares, such as fiberglass, are not allowed in AI."

 

I don't necessarily think this is the right way to go, since it introduces some very non-stock looking cars, but it's the de-facto rule right now, so we should stick with it and clarify it.

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Though I agree that it also takes away from the "stock" appearance, it does even out the ability of the Fox bodies to not be able to run the maximum wheel track as easily as the sn-95 cars along with the pre 79 Mustangs. It can be done, but it doesn't look any more "stock" when they are done than good fender flares do.

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I agree with you Mark 100%. I'm conflicted over whether these flares should have been allowed for just this reason. However, I think the ruling was already made with Greg's car, and I think that it should be spelled out.

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I think we need to get the ruling(s) thus far somehow posted here if possible. I've seen some pics of other regional events and agree some of the cars don't look stock but I don't see that as a problem necessarily. Is there a way a "maximum" extension limit could be placed on the wheel flares that would still allow an even playing field and not impact anyone's car thus far?

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As a spectator, I much prefer looking at the flared cars than the non-flared. I want a race car to look like a race car. Non-flared to me = CMC. Minor flares = AI and crazy flares = AIX.

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How about somebody make an aftermarket front fender for the fox cars, fiberglass or other(some sort of plastic would be ideal), that is tastefully wider and allows these cars to take full advantage of the track width and tire/wheel rule. Another option would be to allow an add-on flare, much like is done on 911's. Again it must be tastefully done and appear similar to stock. Then allow it for AI.

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The way the rules are currently written there is no limit to how wide a non-79+ Mustangs track width can be.

 

I guess there are really two issues that need to be addressed when discussing fender flares:

 

1. Fender flares to cover wheel/tire due to the size of the wheel/tire being larger than the stock envelope.

 

2. Fender flares to cover wheel/tire due to an increase in wheel track.

 

I am against allowing aftermarket wheel flares in AI because I think it drives up the cost to compete. There is an obvious competitive advantage to increasing your track width and as the rules stand all fox body Mustangs now need to add track width and fender flares to be competitive. While I understand Gregs car is done I wouldn't have a problem grandfathering that car and not allowing any other cars. We now have one less way to tell an AI car from an AIX car.

 

I really don't think it matters what type of material you make the fender flare out of because a fender flare is a fender flare.

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I am against allowing aftermarket wheel flares in AI because I think it drives up the cost to compete

 

So you are worried that some sheet metal is going to drive up the costs of AI but think that an IRS should be unlimited because of costs?

 

I've already stated that I don't like the look of fender flares, but if we are going to level the playing field, they need to be allowed. They are more attractive than some of the cutting and stretching going on.

 

As Wilson said in his earlier post, a clarification of wheel track would be a good idea as well as some of the cars are pretty open.

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I am against allowing aftermarket wheel flares in AI because I think it drives up the cost to compete

 

So you are worried that some sheet metal is going to drive up the costs of AI but think that an IRS should be unlimited because of costs?

 

 

Where do I state that IRS should be unlimited? I believe you should be able to modify the factory IRS DEFINITELY!

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Fox cars require stretching the front fenders even when just installing the spec tires for AI on properly sized wheels. For those who try to max the track width, or even get close to it, they really have to stretch them. Without aftermarket options, there really are none now, but I have seen some nice fenders which molds can be made from, one either hacks up their fenders and they look like shit or they spend big money to have a professional do it cleanly only to have the work damaged in minor contact. Then it has to be done all over. Less expensive to have a bolt on.

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Mark Wilson wrote:

I am against allowing aftermarket wheel flares in AI because I think it drives up the cost to compete. There is an obvious competitive advantage to increasing your track width and as the rules stand all fox body Mustangs now need to add track width and fender flares to be competitive.

 

 

 

Mark, you said your new car measured 72", shouldn't those of us with older cars be allowed to run at the same width you do? If you don't allow the older cars to flair their fenders then we will all have to build new cars to get a 72" track width. The last time I checked flairing fenders was a lot cheaper than building a new car.

 

Greg Brown

OH/IN AI #7

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Greg,

 

The problem is not that simple. There are many cars in AI that have wheelbases longer than a Mustangs (102 and change) and track widths wider than 72". What about someone with a 65 Mustang? Should they be allowed the extend their wheel track to 72"? What about Lawrences T-Bird that has a track width of 76" (I believe)? Should we have a set wheelbase and track width and allow all cars to do what it takes to meet those numbers? I don't have the answer but am just voicing one opinion.

 

I fully understand your car is legal and definitely don't want to penalize you for doing what you have done to your car already because that's not right. I think one of the cool things about AI is that the cars look stock from the outside and it's also an easy way to differentiate AI from AIX cars.

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My vote is for the maximum width to be a percentage of wheelbase. So if a Mustang at 102 inch wheelbase gets to have a 72 inch width (making the math easy here), that means the width is 70.5% of the wheelbase. At that ratio, my T-Bird could run 79.6 inches. Mathematically (using my arguement) the T-Bird is at a disadvantage, running only a 66.8% ratio.

 

Flawed arguement? Maybe. But I like my math!

 

For information: The T-Bird is currently 75.5 inches, with 1 inch stretched rear fenders, and the front fenders altered about the same. This is running 9.5 inch wheels that barely miss the suspension and brake system.

 

Chris Nickell is also building a big AI car, an Impala, that I am sure is bigger than the T-Bird. He has about a year into the build. Perhaps the ratio idea isn't such a bad one? Or perhaps a maximum width for a given wheelbase such as:

 

100 - 105 72.5

105 - 110 74

110 - 115 75.5

 

or something like that. That way many different cars could still compete, with a stepped ratio as they get longer.

 

LM

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If these cars are going to get much wider than they are, we are going to have some pretty funky looking cars. I would like to see pictures of your T Bird, because I still can't fathom stretching those front fenders to fit 75.5". It was a chore getting our car to 74" and keeping the look sanitary. I know it would have been less time consuming to buy big flares, but we have more time and ability than money.

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We pulled on the fenders quite a bit, then mounted the whole fender outward a bit (about 3/8"). 2+ degrees negative camber helps too.

 

What car do you run? The T-Birds come from the factory much wider than Mustangs.

 

LM

 

Going to put this over in the Wheelbase and Track width section.

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I like the % idea as well as suggested to JWL at MO earlier this year but don't know how it would work. My only concern is creating cars that aren't recognized from the outside just so they fit the rule.

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We have a maximum wheel size and a maximum track width, why not allow modifications to the wheel openings so the maximums can be met by everybody.

 

If modifications are limited to the wheel openings then the general look and silhouette (spelling?) of the car will be maintained.

 

Richard.

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I understand the question but I guess I don't really understand why it's a problem.

 

How much modifications does it take before a Mustang is unrecognizable? I think it would take a shit load (technical term?)

 

So why would it be a problem? What else is there to gain?

 

Richard.

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I only have one major problem with it.

 

What would stop someone from putting a full all out bodykit on a non-79+ Mustang because they are allowed to make the car as wide as they want? What would stop a 4th gen Camaro from putting 12" fender flares on the car and extending the track width as much as they could because the rules don't limit their track width and now we allow fender flares. Same thing for a 65 Mustang.

 

With all the discussion on cost control it seems that this is one modification that should stay with the AIX guys because it's harder for most people to install a set of good fender flares than it is to put on a set of heads and intake. It's also a visible deterent for newbies looking to join us.

 

The positive side of this is that it allows many of the older cars to now fit 275's in their wheel wells and perhaps run AI instead of AIX.

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Seriously tho -

 

 

I can't help but notice that almost all of the discussion here has been centered around Ford products. This is all fine and great as all those cars have metal fenders that can be beat out and shaped to fit under the current rules. However those rules don't help us tupperware pilots with the late model GM cars. While the rear fenders are metal and can be stretched out under the current rules our front fenders (and doors for that matter) are plastic. The rule that Scott is proposing would essentially make the late model GM cars illegal.

 

I would prefer that we come up with a way to allow fender flares on the cars and not simply stretching of the fenders. My car's wheels are about as far out as I can push them without hitting the fenders. I would like to be able to push them out a bit further once I go with a different K-member and front control arms but I can't as the fenders are going to be the limiting factor and I can't flare them out like the Fords can.

 

I don't really have any solid ideas on how the rule could be written to handle this, but I'll list the vague thoughts I have on the subject in the hopes that someone can take them and run with it:

 

1. Limit material to steel, plastic and fiberglass. Thisshould eliminate exotic construction like CF

 

2. Limit width of the flare as mesaured from any point on the fender flare to the closest part of the fender.

 

3. LImit the width and height of the flare as well. This should prevent people from boxing in the fenders on a car a'la Porsche 911 / 914 etc...

 

Thoughts/ Comments?

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