swhiteh3 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Okay, I'm going to catch some flack for this one, but I'm going to throw it out anyway. I think all AI/X cars should have stock dashboard shells. Competitors would be allowed to drill holes in the shell for switches, gauges, etc. *There is no weight penalty for this at all if someone takes the time to cut out the frame behind it and hang it in a reasonable way. *Cars which already break this rule would be grandfathered into the series, either for a set period of time (they have two years for resolve the problem) or even permanantly. A note in the log book would settle this part. The problem here is that cars need to be recognizable and achievable to the average open tracker or mustang owner. In time, more and more cars are going to featured in magazines, and stock-car style dashs only succeed in pushing people away from the series and making the car completely unrecognizable from the inside. We have rules in place, and good ones, to ensure that the cars stay recognizable from the outside. We should do the same for the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Stay off the crack Scott. Go CMC if you don't like it. If you allow the driver seat to be moved back, you have to allow the dash to be open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 That's ridiculous Chris. Why in the world can you not move all the controls back (steering wheel, pedals, shifter) and leave the dash in? Have you ever looked at a DTM car? JGTC car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Okay fine Scott. How about the fire hazard with all the crap you Ford guys put under the dash, and the fumes the dash would cause when burning? IF you want it to look stock, go with a stock class, CMC. When your ready to play with the big boys, rip out the dash and come to AIX. Change "big" to "fast" in the last sentence, I forgot who I was talking to. How about gage placement? It's much nicer with a custom dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 Fire hazard? Did you not read my note saying that you can remove anything you want underneath, and you only need to keep the "skin"? Keeping the cars looking stock is a huge part of what our series is based on. Why not allow Trans-Am cars then? In large part because they don't look anything like a Mustang or any other legal muscle car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 So take a Trans Am car, add a stock dash, and now it's legal? Get real. That's NOT the reason we don't want to run against them. How about the tube frame, suspension pickup points, center of gravity, rigidity etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bird Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I think that all AI cars should have to retain the stock or stock equivalent dash (I disagree on AIX however) but the difficulty here is that it is hard to define how much dash is a stock dash. More often then not a large amount of the stock dash (lower half) is cut out and then what is left is clearanced to fit around a cage. Is that then legal? BTW, the Speed World Challenge requires the use of a stock of stock equivalent dash. They usually go for the carbon fiber equivalent Paul Bird 96 Cobra AIX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Did you not read my note saying that you can remove anything you want underneath, and you only need to keep the "skin"? Okay fine Scott. I was trying to hold back and not hurt you Ford Engineers feelings but hear it goes. THE STOCK DASH IN A MUSTANG IS BUTT - F*N UGLY!!!! There, I said it. I'm sorry it had to come to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 Yeah, I think allowances should be made for things like removing to glovebox, the anti-submarine panels, etc. And yes, the cage should be allowed to go through the cage, with corresponding holes. The spirit of this rule is that the car, when viewed from in the window while sitting in the pits, has the rough feel of it's stock counterpart. It's not to DQ anyone. I'd generally be against allowing composite equivalents. It's uneccessary spending IMHO. I'd support making it a requirement in AI only, and not in AIX. I think that makes good sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Just my perspective - WHY CHANGE EXISTING RULES? Let's not go looking where no problem exists, please! Tighten up the existing rules, OK, but complete REVERSALS? C'mon guys, I built the car already. Seems some want to spend my money, then I need a very good reason first. I used the rules in 2003 to build the car, it was legal for that year and 2004. What good reason could there be to change this rule? I can't justify the costs of finding a stock dash (BUTT UGLY I AGREE), rip out my exisiting one, stick the stocker in there just so someone can look see in the window and think "Gee, it's a Mustang!". The car looks stock on the outside - READ: No fender mods. If they get that close, they already know it is a Mustang. I'll need the PERMANENT exclusion in my log book on this one if it does get changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z28racergirl Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I also disagree with the dash idea in AI. Here's my train of thought: CMC is a spec class where the cars remain as close to factory as possible. AI is a step up from that where more custom parts can be made but that cars must remain recognizable. AIX is anything goes. If for '05 rules, the stock dash must remain, I'm a firm believer that current cars be grandfathered. Thanks, Christine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trackboss Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Having done both style dash's in the past I would vote for allowing a custom dash. There is no real weight savings going to a custom dash(if a stock one is done correctly), but it is far easier to work on if there is a problem. The only problem may be asthetics. I have seen some custom dash's, if you even want to call them that, which look like ass. On the other hand I have seen stock dashes that are ugly as well with all sorts of unecessary wiring and such hanging all over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Leave the current rule intact. CMC is the spec/stock class, so let's leave it that way. Grandfathering in existing cars will create confusion. And Grizz....the stock early Fox dash is cool. That's why I've owned a total of 5, 4-eyed cars. ....not a director talking, just a fellow racer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Personally, I agree with the stock dash look for AI. However, I do think it's too late now and grandfathering dilutes the effort in this case. Only suggestion here is some wording in the rules that states "Dash removal is discouraged" or "Retaining the factory dash shell is highly recommended." For a newbie looking for guidance, hopefully he'll get it in the rules vs. from seeing Capt. Hack's dash! But messing with the existing racecars is flat out wrong... (As you know by now,...Posted as a racer and not as a Director.) -=- Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasaracer32 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I agree about grandfathering rules......don't do it. It is crap to expect someone to go back and add a stock dash into a AI/X car that may have a fabbed up dash now. It is just ridiculous to ask a lot of us to do that. And for what..?.. a 'stock' appearance. Well, there are a lot of other non-stock looking things on the car. Will we have to change them too? This really isn't something that needs to any attention, IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 As an AI competitor with a fabricated dash, I'm not in favor of changing the rules back to a stock dash. My car is so much easier to work on without the stock dash in the way. Richard P. NASA TX AI #91 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Beverly Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I would leave the rule the way it is. In (SCCA) ASedan we have to run the stock dash, it is a PITA to work on anything behind it, and make it fit around the cage while still looking "stock". It also makes it very difficult to get under the dash to work on pedals, (and what not) with door bars. Keep it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&A Racing Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Personally, I agree with the stock dash look for AI. However, I do think it's too late now and grandfathering dilutes the effort in this case. Only suggestion here is some wording in the rules that states "Dash removal is discouraged" or "Retaining the factory dash shell is highly recommended." For a newbie looking for guidance, hopefully he'll get it in the rules vs. from seeing Capt. Hack's dash! But messing with the existing racecars is flat out wrong... (As you know by now,...Posted as a racer and not as a Director.) -=- Todd Just had to bump this one to the top, could not agree with you more Todd, messing the existing cars is flat out wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 heheheh.....at least I'm consistent over the years! My opinion hasn't changed... 1) I like the look of a stock dash. 2) Asking folks to put a stock dash back in is just wrong. I've got my 2010 Rules Reasoning post or "Director's Cut" all written up and ready to post...hopefully you'll see where I'm coming from. My home computer is hosed right now and I can't put the document in a .pdf file or post it to the forum. I'm looking for a large document solution and will work with the webmaster... Stay tuned... -=- Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevepoe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 up from the depths , 30 stories high ...breathing fire it's ..... 2004 ? seriously. that is funny... least you used the search function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssfab Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I still don't understand how a dash rule is doing anything to better AI. I think they should have spent more effort on how to police the rules that were already there. Instead of making more rules that don't do anything for the racing which is what it's sopposed to be about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AIX9 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I agree with ssfab about policing the current rules, like the one saying you cant use a body in white because it was never street legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I agree with ssfab about policing the current rules, like the one saying you cant use a body in white because it was never street legal. I still don't understand how a dash rule is doing anything to better AI. I think they should have spent more effort on how to police the rules that were already there. Instead of making more rules that don't do anything for the racing which is what it's sopposed to be about. That's it, I've had it. I'm taking my ball and going home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssfab Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I agree with ssfab about policing the current rules, like the one saying you cant use a body in white because it was never street legal. I still don't understand how a dash rule is doing anything to better AI. I think they should have spent more effort on how to police the rules that were already there. Instead of making more rules that don't do anything for the racing which is what it's sopposed to be about. That's it, I've had it. I'm taking my ball and going home. Come on man you crybaby more than anyone here. I just got done watching the video from nats on Ferguson's in-car and seen you were in second place ahead of Patrick 100 feet before turn 1 and you made a stupid move following the green car and ended up getting boned so don't cry about slingshot this or crappy start that, you would have had it made if u turned behind Patrick. As far as picking up and going somewhere else and racing we will if they don't figure out a way to police it and quit writing stupid rules that have nothing to do with the quality of racing. It seems like no matter what Pat and I do either were cheating or our car is outside the rule or we botch the start and the bottom line is we were getting slaughtered on the straight away and stomping everybody's ass everywhere else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyC Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 " It seems like no matter what Pat and I do either were cheating or our car is outside the rule or we botch the start and the bottom line is we were getting slaughtered on the straight away and stomping everybody's ass everywhere else" I could have said the same thing when I was driving. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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