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Balroks

Cage builders..

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Balroks
So we can see, it's only a bloody 10 lbs difference.... wow. Time for me to go on a quick diet

And, you will only "realize" that 10 lb difference if you have the option between the 1.5" x 0.120" and 1.75" x 0.095" tubing sizes, which only happens if your car is in the 2501-3000 lb range. But, if your car weighs 3001 or more (presumably fully loaded), then you don't have a choice, as the 1.75" x 0.120" is mandatory. I'm not sure what gutted Evos weigh these days, though.

 

Personally, I would rather not be at the upper limit of required tubing sizes. If my car was to weigh 2999 lbs with cage, driver, gas, cool suit, etc., then I'd rather go with the 1.75" OD than cut out 10 lbs with the 1.50" OD.

 

Mark

 

Agreed, i'm shooting for 2700ish, we'll see once i get these seat mounts fabed and get to taking all the rest of the stuff out (AC, radio, etc etc). One autocross evo got his down to 2320 lbs before cage. You know anyone locally who has scales?

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TurboShortBus
You know anyone locally who has scales?

1. Go out to the dragstrip in Bithlo on test n tune night and use their balance beam scale next to the timeslip booth; it was right on the money compared to Longacre drive-on scales that I used at Sebring last time. Admission is $10 to just watch or $15 to run, so you can either make a drag night out of it or try to sweet talk the girls at the gate and tell them that you just need to use the scale for 10 minutes and hopefully not pay. It worked for me before, but then again, I've been going there fairly regularly since 1990 (and with the same car since 1995).

 

2. Go to the Seminole County waste transfer station on 419 between 17-92 and 434. They have truck scales on the way in and on the way out. I think it only measures in 20 lb increments, but it should be "close enough" to get your car in the ballpark. They are open on Saturdays until 5-ish. I'm sure there's a similar transfer station in Orange County, but I don't know where it is (I'm in Seminole County).

 

Mark

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Gators2001

I got more pics today!!!

 

100_2943.jpg

 

100_2944.jpg

 

100_2945.jpg

 

100_2946.jpg

Edited by Guest

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racecarbuilders

i didnt know they were so close.... that is interesting 10 lbs.... wow ..not worth worring about.... we scaled the evo in the pics before the cage ...sitll has ac it was in the neighborhood of 3150..... i think they need to weigh 3500 in most classes from what i have heard ...evo and wrx are allways worried about being heavy enough they make them urn stupid heavy but they are awsome cars ...but the lighter you make it ....you get to choose where the weight is...cage is done ....pics should be up tonight just need to put it all back together dash.. .wiring and do the window net

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Gators2001

Hey Anthony!

 

Thanks for all the pics. Cant wait to pick her up.

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Balroks

Holy crap nice bends Did you gut or did Gator gut the door areas?

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32EVOIX

...sitll has ac it was in the neighborhood of 3150..... i think they need to weigh 3500 in most classes from what i have heard ...

 

Actually, 3263 lbs minimum weight for evo IX in TTB any lighter and you have to start taking points. Interestingly, I looked at the rules and the evo X is not listed, I remember seeing it somewhere but could locate. I would guess it has to be higher than the IX. Nice job on the cage.

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32EVOIX
Agreed, i'm shooting for 2700ish, we'll see once i get these seat mounts fabed and get to taking all the rest of the stuff out (AC, radio, etc etc). One autocross evo got his down to 2320 lbs before cage. You know anyone locally who has scales?

 

What class are you looking to run? Be careful on the points issue from what I am guessing here is that you might end up being TTS. If that is the case I hope you are ready to run in the Low 20's at Sebring because that is what it is going to take to come close to Spanky (400 lbs of torque). Anything below 3263 lbs on the evo IX and you will get hammered on points.

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Gators2001

hey jimmy

 

yea its an added adendom where its classed TTB w/ 3500.

 

gonna have to start getting my ducks in a row.

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Balroks

Dem damn ducks lol. Ya i knew the car was going to be either TTS or TTU, car has minor bolt on's so i could either leave it like it was and put on the power to keep up with Spanky in the straights, or take the weight out and hope for the best. After watching several videos and getting a lecture from my father's racing, I opted to take everything out and build it proper with fuel cell, fire system, nets, the works - then worry about power cause power on these cars is as simple as turning up the boost if tuned right I want to be safe then work on being fast.

 

Spanky is a good goal to shoot for, he's prolly 10x better driver them me too lol. I've been keeping up with his times posted on the TT website. My car stock usually ran 29 to 30 so i know she's capable, well know for Vette's kryptonite in TT.

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32EVOIX

Your fathers advice is spot on, safety fist. My biggest torment with my car is that it is my daily driver so I do not want to tare the car up. But having been around this for a long while I have serious reservations about safety. The times that I am running I really should have a cage but that would mean turning the car into a race car, which I do not want to do. Sebastian, I don’t know if you know him, he has a black evo IX that is built to the hilt. He has spent a lot of money on nothing but the best. His car is classified as TTU and the best he could put up was a 2.21. Our cars can produce horsepower quite easily but we cannot put down the torque a big littler V8 can. In attempting to make a car that can keep up it ends up costing a lot of money because we need to make up time in the corners, braking etc. A moton suspension would set us back about 10 grand. And good luck finding someone that can set it up correctly.

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Balroks
Your fathers advice is spot on, safety fist. My biggest torment with my car is that it is my daily driver so I do not want to tare the car up. But having been around this for a long while I have serious reservations about safety. The times that I am running I really should have a cage but that would mean turning the car into a race car, which I do not want to do. Sebastian, I don’t know if you know him, he has a black evo IX that is built to the hilt. He has spent a lot of money on nothing but the best. His car is classified as TTU and the best he could put up was a 2.21. Our cars can produce horsepower quite easily but we cannot put down the torque a big littler V8 can. In attempting to make a car that can keep up it ends up costing a lot of money because we need to make up time in the corners, braking etc. A moton suspension would set us back about 10 grand. And good luck finding someone that can set it up correctly.

 

Ya Seb's car is sick, no doubt. Alcon brakes and everything. But i got some tricks up my sleeve

 

Also ditto on the reservations...i can't help but feel death sitting shotgun going at the insane speeds the car is capable of, especially with friends and other online people who've bit the bullet just in regular traffic accidents with our awesome 2 star or whatever crash safety rating. When you gut it out, it becomes obvious how much more of a "race" car it is then a street car when they engineered it.

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TurboShortBus

Speaking of safety, I'm a little concerned that Senor Spanky is only wearing a t-shirt and jeans while turning 2:18 laps (American Iron cars are in the high 2.20s, and they wear full fire suits, gloves, shoes, HANS devices, harnesses, etc.). I used to wear jeans, t-shirt, and my old 1-layer fire jacket from my drag racing days for HPDE, but now I have my Sparco suit, gloves, and shoes that I had to buy for the 24 Hours of LeMons; since I paid close to $800 for everything, I might as well use the gear whenever possible.

 

Mark

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Balroks

Another good point, because the risk doesn't go down in HPDE4 verses a real race. You, your car, someone else or someone's car could make a mistake or break and make your fun day a really really bad day. At speed is at speed.

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Gators2001

Yea I have been getting "what have you done to ur car that u need a cage?" line on other forums....

 

Safety is KEY!

 

Got my HANS, shoes, gloves, and other little stuff... Need to start figuring which type of suit to get.

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Balroks
Yea I have been getting "what have you done to ur car that u need a cage?" line on other forums....

 

Safety is KEY!

 

Got my HANS, shoes, gloves, and other little stuff... Need to start figuring which type of suit to get.

 

Let me know when you figure that out, ima need one too.

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TurboShortBus

As for suits, I skullfucked this one for several weeks before ordering my full Sparco setup.

 

I would recommend that you get a suit made out of Nomex, not some other brand name. Nomex is a fire-resistant fiber, while the other brands are merely cotton fibers that are treated with a fire-retardant chemical that can deteriorate over time after washings, etc. (similar to Scotchgard on your couch; after enough humping, those pecker tracks won't clean off).

 

Unfortunately, the Nomex comes at a premium, as my suit was about $500 from SafeRacer.com, whereas the others are in the $300 neighborhood. Country of origin was a factor for me as well, as I try to limit my safety gear to the good old USA or even Italy, but I avoid China like the plague for life or death equipment, even if it means spending a couple hundred more dollars overall.

 

I also ordered my Sparco gloves, shoes, Nomex socks, and Nomex balaclava from SafeRacer.com. I look like a walking Sparco ad with a Bell helmet on top, but it's all quality equipment.

 

Mark

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TurboShortBus

Back to cages.

 

I noticed that your upper windshield crossbar is welded to the stock roof structure, and the A-pillar bars appear to be welded to the stock A-pillars. Have you planned to take the +2 point hit for this, per the TT Classification Form?

ROLL CAGES:

4) One or more bars that are welded to the chassis (directly or with a plate) anywhere farther than 6" from the end of a tube where it terminates at a plate +2

 

While I would certainly want my cage to attach to the stock chassis wherever possible (as Anthony has done), I'm also keeping in mind that the Camaro-Mustang Challenge rules (a class I'll likely move toward) specifically prohibit connections other than at the floorpan plates (none at the top of the A-pillars, none at the top of the B-pillars, etc.). CMC rules also do not allow extra tubes that serve only to stiffen the chassis; they only allow tubes that increase driver safety (umm, isn't a stiffer cage safer?). One CMC Mustang cage has a bar welded across the trunk to join the stock shock towers, with the rear kickers welding into that tube, and he was reamed in the CMC forums for having an illegal cage (they claimed that the tube was only there to stiffen the chassis and served no driver protection purpose), and it was suggested that his cage would fail tech inspection at Nationals unless he cut that horizontal cross tube out. Some of the roll cage rules are pretty stupid, IMHO.

 

As for my own cage, I would want additional bars that start at the mid-vertical point of the main hoop (where the hoop crossbar meets the upper angled door X bars) and go back to where the kickers attach to the floorpan. This could be deemed illegal by CMC standards, although I still maintain that a stiffer cage is a safer cage (you would still have front and rear crumple zones anyway).

 

Mark

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Gators2001

Yes I planned on taking points on the cage. I feel from the little reading I have done that it bennifits justify the points.

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Balroks

^ Ya i'm a big fan of Nomex, got the gloves, but the shoes i ordered online are crap (piloti low top's) so i'm getting those bits last. How does the Sparco breath?

 

Cage rules kinda tipped me too. By the time i started adding up all these points i was like....aw hell with it, lets build a spanky spanker

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TurboShortBus

My Sparco suit seems fine, although I've only worn it for 2 events...the LeMons South race last July (1 hour in the car on Saturday and 1 hr 45 mins in the car on Sunday, in 90* heat) and the last Sebring event a few weeks ago. I was pretty sweaty after the 1:45 stint at LeMons (and I smelled like the north end of a southbound mule), but I'm fine after 25 minutes in TT. I also wear my regular shorts and T-shirt under the suit.

 

This is my suit:

http://www.saferacer.com/sparco-sprint-6-suit.html?productid=734

 

Black suit in the background:

http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/07/medium_2704187235_e6e39b760f_o.jpg

 

Mark

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racecarbuilders

agree that rule is silly... its safer you would think???? anything to make it safer ..those rules usually only apply to stock type classes ...i build it to touch ...that is supported therfore stiffer than not touching ... stiching is optional and talked about before hand ...everyone seems to agree that the stiffining that stitching gives is worth the 2 points ..sabastions is stitched as well ...i did his cage as well as jeff lindstrome ...brian kaprillian... rene gomes..... craig sandit ..the becker brothers .. ...jim brown ..ed zerbies a white and blue porsh 996..the orange 05 06 mustang as well as a few others ....sorry cant remember everyones names off the top... i do 75 cars a year they do run together . ... i want to thank all for the good word .... if you guys know these guys check them out ...pics are one thing first hand is another

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kbrew8991

its fine as long as its cleared with the buyer ahead of time and all I'd be pissed if you cost me 2 mod points that I didn't budget to the cage... but thats just me

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Balroks

Just called Anthony and we're gonna hook up to do the car, looking forward to getting it done proper and in time for homestead

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Gators2001

great news!

 

I have been to busy to play w/ mine...

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