Grizlbits Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I am tired of buying $1300 sets of Hoosier that last 1 weekend. Bite me if you say they last longer than the S03's. I can get them to last longer also, if I drive at 9.6 tenths, but not at 10/10'ths. I do not want to have to buy these tires to be competative with someone who can afford to buy a new set every race. I propose 2 options: 1. Make everyone (AIX) run the Toyo RA1's. They last much longer, and they aren't that much slower than the Hoosiers. 2. Let us Run full blown Slicks. I can get them used for $75 a piece and they last 4 weekends. There is also 20 compounds to choose from, some of which can last even longer. If option 1 is chosen, and you don't have them, you can run, but not for points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 You've answered your own question on the slicks Chris. If you want to run 10/10ths, then the answer is to buy new slicks. Not a whole lot of savings there I don't believe. As for a spec tire, well, I've been a proponent of this rule for a while. I'm happy to add my name to the list of people who think a spec tire for AIX is the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bird Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 Let us Run full blown Slicks. I can get them used for $75 a piece and they last 4 weekends. Once you loose bad to a similar car on a set of brand new stickier compound slicks you will be back to buying a new set every weekend. I am not against the RA1 idea either. I would vote for the RA1 (or Nitto 555 RIIs) as spec with contingency , but drop the 11" wheel maximum width restriction to go with it. Paul Bird 96 Cobra AIX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 15, 2004 Author Share Posted September 15, 2004 but drop the 11" wheel maximum width restriction to go with it. I agree, but- 1. I already converted my rims to 11" 2. an 11" rim will run the 335 / 30 / 18 tires just fine, which are the largest DOT tires you can buy anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 I agree with Chris - the 11" rule should remain no matter what other rules changes are made to tire rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Bird Posted September 15, 2004 Share Posted September 15, 2004 2. an 11" rim will run the 335 / 30 / 18 tires just fine, which are the largest DOT tires you can buy anyway. If they run the largest DOT tire fine then why object? The reason you dump this rule is that there are four less measurements to be made to determine if a car is legal. Also there is a lot more ambiguity to determining wheel width than you can imagine. Call my friend at the SCCA Solo Nationals if you want to see what a cluster phuck this can be. Paul Bird 96 Cobra AIX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94bird Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I would also be fine with a Toyo spec tire next year for AIX. It would mean I would have to replace my 17x11" wheels I have, but that initial expense would be quickly offset by a cheaper tire budget. I would have likely gone with 18" wheels eventually to run larger front brakes anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 You will still get outspent. Somebody will have to go get new RA-1s shaved to 2/32 every weekend. The rubber on S04s does last a bit longer, but they do slow down a bit. Kevin Chambers used one set all weekend and he ran his fastest lap towards the end of the day on Sunday. To give Chris his due, Kevin might not have been running 10/10 because the tattle tale was just shy of the rev limiter after every session. Maybe if you gradually bring your pace down to 9.6/10, Scott would just think he was improving. You'd be saving money at the same time you're helping somebody's self image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacovini Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I like the spec RA1 for AIX idea. With increasing car counts it could represent higher national Toyo consumption and raise the Toyo Buck returns. (What does CostCo say....Better to buy in bulk!) Also, eliminates another variable among competitors. -=- Todd (Racer not Director) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 You will still get outspent. Somebody will have to go get new RA-1s shaved to 2/32 every weekend. Yes that will never be fixed, but it will be with tires that last MUCH longer if I choose to run the older ones, and the Toyos do not drop off that much with extra heat cycles like the Hoosiers do. So even if they do get new ones for every event the difference between new tires and old tires is minimized. Maybe if you gradually bring your pace down to 9.6/10, Scott would just think he was improving. I've tried that, It doesn't work. My wife says a have a chemical imbalance which does not allow me to back off. I am seeking help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilson7 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I like the AIX guys running Toyo's as well because it then gives them money for tires and also puts in some cost control. Another nice benefit is that then more AI/X guys are buying Toyo's so maybe we could get a better deal in the payouts! I figured it wouldn't hurt to throw that in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I'd be the first in AI/X to raise my hand in support of Toyos as a spec tire for AIX. (Okay, as always, I'd actually be second to Griswold......) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Horse Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I would welcome Spec Tires in AIX under the following considerations: - The Spec. Tire Manufacturer sign on for at least a 3 year deal to assure we don't have to buy from a different manufacturer every year. - This spec. tire/manufacturer deal be a catalyst to drive for class sponsorship/contingency/prize/awards or even reduction in tire cost to teams. The overall reason for spec tire should not only to be to make the competition on a level playing field but to lessen the overall series costs to the teams. - Wheel sizes not to be narrowly defined, perhaps a maximum 11" width and 20" diameter (no minimum) - Rain tire be spec'd as well (same tire/not shaved, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 The biggest problem with Toyos for AIX is that everyone who isn't so equipped would be forced to buy 18" wheels if they hoped to be competitive. That would mean some people would have to buy new wheels twice in 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 The biggest problem with Toyos for AIX is that everyone who isn't so equipped would be forced to buy 18" wheels if they hoped to be competitive. That would mean some people would have to buy new wheels twice in 2 years. Not true! 315 35 - 17's are just as wide as 305 30 18's (within .2" I think), fast & available. I have proven this over and over (I switch back & forth). The 335s are wider yes, but I've run both and the difference is negligible. AIX isn't that competative to notice currently - see AIX h.p. & torque proposal. Edit - to clarifiy tire size, and add comment on 335's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Chris, Toyo doesn't make a 17" tire wider than a 275. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 16, 2004 Author Share Posted September 16, 2004 Chris, Toyo doesn't make a 17" tire wider than a 275. My bad - sorry. Sucks to be you. FWIW - the 11" rule cost me $600 for new sets of inner rims for the 3 piece wheels (and I still ran the same tires - so what good did it do?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDR_John Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 If Toyo had a size that we could all agree upon then I would be all for a spec tire, if and only if it came with a contingency program. I'm not to sure what is out there but I think it should be at least a 315 section width. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racercosmo Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I really am not against Toyos, I was just mentioning some drawbacks for a few people. I don't think anybody out West uses 18s, and I know that a few people had 12" wide wheels in 2002. I have a supply train for used tires anyway. It's just too bad that Porsches use 245 fronts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWL Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 The Kumho V710 seems to come in some reasonable sizes at a cost $200 or more per set less than the Hosers. Your opinions? -JWL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 17, 2004 Author Share Posted September 17, 2004 They last about the same as Hoosiers, maybe a little longer, nowhere NEAR Toyos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Borton Posted September 17, 2004 Share Posted September 17, 2004 The Kumho V710 seems to come in some reasonable sizes at a cost $200 or more per set less than the Hosers. Your opinions? -JWL I have a set of the new Re-released Kumho V710 and love the grip they have. I do have a set of the new Hoosier R3SO4 and dont think they have as much grip as the Kumhos. As JWL said they are several hundred dollars less per set. I run 18" wheels, and whould like to see a increase in wheel width for the 2005 season. I think 14" wide would be a good starting point. I think there is to much Horsepower (some say +600 RWHP) being put down in AI/X for the current tire and wheel limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 25, 2004 Author Share Posted September 25, 2004 I think there is to much Horsepower (some say +600 RWHP) being put down in AI/X for the current tire and wheel limits 2 things Gene- If we have too much H.P., well just have to get the driver to harness the power ehh? If 11 rims don't give you enough traction, vote for the "slicks" idea. I've run them (on 11" rims), unbelievable grip. You won't need 14" rims. You won't find a DOT tire that is bigger than 335, so I guess you are for the slicks idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Borton Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 I think there is to much Horsepower (some say +600 RWHP) being put down in AI/X for the current tire and wheel limits 2 things Gene- If we have too much H.P., well just have to get the driver to harness the power ehh? If 11 rims don't give you enough traction, vote for the "slicks" idea. I've run them (on 11" rims), unbelievable grip. You won't need 14" rims. You won't find a DOT tire that is bigger than 335, so I guess you are for the slicks idea? Cris, I think slicks that are "new" would be a different story, and think they will work very well for us. I need more information about buying used slicks. I would worry about any used tire that i dont know the track history of. Lastly: What is too much Horsepower???????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnmustcobra Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I would prefer if the rim width were increased to 12" max. and not limited to a specific diameter. I just started racing AIX this season and spent last year building the car and had planned to run 13 "wide rims on the rear. We flared the fenders (custom steel fabricated) and then the rules were changed to 11" max width. We elected not to change the flares and repaint the car as the expense would have been hard on the budget, and now the car looks a little silly with all that fender flare in the rear. We did send back the 2 rear wheels for fitment to 11" wide rims at an expense of $400. AIX car designs utilize such diverse engineering from engines, suspensions,brakes,etc..,that the problem with selecting a spec tire with a specific wheel width and diameter, is that existing cars and cars that are currently being fabricated and are past the wheel and tire design stage, would either have to redesign some of their bodywork and chassis to compliment the tire and wheel specifications. And in addition, to specify a tire size would force a significant number of drivers to purchase new wheels and maybe have difficulty with brake caliper and rotor clearances. If there is such a broad range in the design and engineering in AIX cars that produces unique strengths in the performances of all our cars, then a spec tire will not really "equal " the field anyway! If a specific tire and wheel were required at this point, there would be some cars that would not be affected verses major affects to others. I wonder how many different tires and wheel combinations everyone is currently using. I have 11 x 18 wheels with 305/30 x 18 Hoosiers. I have noticed that not all manufacturers produce this size. So, is it fair to drivers that would be required to make the wheel, body and chassis changes to achieve maximum performance where others would not require any changes??? I just wish that rules could be in place for more than a year (like 2 or 3 years) before changes were made, unless safety or a majority of drivers request the change. I for one request no spec tires...but maximum wheel width rules would be acceptable. David Morrison #9 Kenny Brown Equipped 1988 Mustang Coupe NASA - Southeast Region Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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