Red Tornado Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I would be fine with what folks are saying if it allows factory aero packages such as Cobra R splitter to be used as an exception. Otherwise I struggle with my cheap plastic $300 splitter that really is flimsy and not that great but is super easy to just take off and on and having to buy an expensive front splitter for a $1k at least and it being a bear to remove to get on and off my car trailer. I know I am one of the few running one of these but it will be tough to swallow upgrading to a very expensive splitter that will work a ton better I am sure because my cheaper factory one is illegal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Chris- As I mentioned in several of my earlier posts, my intent is NOT to illegalize existing and easily-available aftermarket solutions. How low is your Cobra R splitter when the car is set at a legal ride height? And how "long" is it compared to the front bumper when viewed from above? Is there some other component of the rules that the Cobra R piece violates? One of the things I'm trying to do by pushing this rule is to ENCOURAGE people to use easy off-the-shelf solutions, rather than feeling they need to go a composites shop and spend thousands for a near-optimum solution. So we'd certainly want to structure the rule to keep such easy solutions legal. We do need to act soon though. Waiting until someone has proven the advantage (especially when the advantage is well known in every series of racing out there) is just asking for trouble. Not only is it too late then, but how would you feel about someone proposing a rule that outlaws "pro-racing-team builts cars" simply because YOU have proven it's an advantage?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe331 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I have side skirts on my car now made by AGENT 47 and would like it if they were not made illegal. AGENT 47 spent a lot of time making these and they are sold on their web site so it's not some one off thing. My car also has vents on the tops of the front fenders that I would like to keep. I really don't want to have to redo my flared fenders that have 4 inch holes in them now. Look the skirts don't do anything anyway the car still flies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holster Maker Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Leave the rules alone.............III-X Those sides do nothing but keep balls from rolling under your car in the paddock. Ryan, wasn't B-Mac near you with no skirts, etc?... http://www.americanironracing.com//news/p2_articleid/130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Leave the rules alone.............III-X Those sides do nothing but keep balls from rolling under your car in the paddock. Ryan, wasn't B-Mac near you with no skirts, etc?... http://www.americanironracing.com//news/p2_articleid/130" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Not following the logic. Are you saying the mods do nothing? Becasue I'm sure Ryan put them on his car, and Agent 47 markets it, just because they look cool. Or is it that someone noticed the rules don't say that you can't do these things, so an inovative guy took advantage. So, if cutting open a fender is legal, how much can I cut away, and what needs to stay? Can I cut the rear quarter open, roof? It doesn't say that I can't. We could have nasty looking cars in the field. If side skits are ok, then what about an undertray? Nothing wrong with finding openings, except the rules are silent on a lot things. There are a lot of items that need to be clarified. These things should be resolved before they end up on someones car. My opinion, either write a book and make it very clear, or make this statement. "If it's not discussed in the rule set, it is not approved." There is a precedent for rules being added or changed even after someone had taken advantage of an opening. Also, if these items and others are made clear, then new guys at least know what they are getting into, and the rest of us can decide if this is where we want to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbrown8439 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Look the skirts don't do anything anyway the car still flies But it flies flatter than cars without them. Not fair!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Love the picture!!! My cobra r splitter is 5 inches in length forward of bumper so based on discussion it would be needing to be cut which is impossible since it is all one piece of plastic/fiberglass. It does not stick out the side and doesn't go beyond front of front wheel well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_tone Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) I have side skirts on my car now made by AGENT 47 and would like it if they were not made illegal. AGENT 47 spent a lot of time making these and they are sold on their web site so it's not some one off thing. Well when I had a car with a Kenny Brown modified OEM IRS cradle it was not one off, and KB spent quite a bit of money engineering/modifying it and it was still deemed illegal even though it was available to the masses via his website so why should Agent 47 have any other expectations? Edited October 28, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Well when I had a car with a Kenny Brown modified OEM IRS cradle it was not one off, and KB spent quite a bit of money engineering/modifying it and it was still deemed illegal even though it was available to the masses via his website so why should Agent 47 have any other expectations? That was before my time in AI, but wasn't there an issue with a frame rail being notched for the rear upper control arm as well? That's what sticks in my head, but my memory isn't what it used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_tone Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Well when I had a car with a Kenny Brown modified OEM IRS cradle it was not one off, and KB spent quite a bit of money engineering/modifying it and it was still deemed illegal even though it was available to the masses via his website so why should Agent 47 have any other expectations? That was before my time in AI, but wasn't there an issue with a frame rail being notched for the rear upper control arm as well? That's what sticks in my head, but my memory isn't what it used to be. They were separate issues. The notches were/are easily fixed, the ruling which deemed a modified OEM IRS cradle illegal is what I am referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holster Maker Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) Cobra R front not being legal in AI is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. We have 2800+ lb cars with 9.5-1 ratio, who cares what the others put on the car, as long as it looks good/safe. Do you really believe they would help a 315 hp car at 3000 lbs? Now at 3400 lbs and 850 hp, diff ballgame or 1600 lbs and 400 hp.......etc. But where we are at, probably slow you down. This is the best driver/best suspension/most reliable series event. This Aero is all a waste of time, just not fast enough! IMHO only........... Edited October 28, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Chris- As I mentioned in several of my earlier posts, my intent is NOT to illegalize existing and easily-available aftermarket solutions. How low is your Cobra R splitter when the car is set at a legal ride height? And how "long" is it compared to the front bumper when viewed from above? Is there some other component of the rules that the Cobra R piece violates? One of the things I'm trying to do by pushing this rule is to ENCOURAGE people to use easy off-the-shelf solutions, rather than feeling they need to go a composites shop and spend thousands for a near-optimum solution. So we'd certainly want to structure the rule to keep such easy solutions legal. We do need to act soon though. Waiting until someone has proven the advantage (especially when the advantage is well known in every series of racing out there) is just asking for trouble. Not only is it too late then, but how would you feel about someone proposing a rule that outlaws "pro-racing-team builts cars" simply because YOU have proven it's an advantage?!? I had a feeling my specific dimensions would be attacked. But, generally speaking, I think some type of parameters should be laid out. No one is suggesting that existing off the shelf parts be deemed illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) Cobra R front not being legal in AI is the most ridicuious thing I ever heard..I agree, and frankly I think there is no one here who disagrees. We've been very clear numerous times - NO ONE'S INTENT IS TO ILLEGALIZE THE COBRA R FRONT FASCIA / SPLITTER. But where we are at, probably slow you down. This is the best driver/best suspension/most reliable series event.This Aero is all a waste of time, just not fast enough! IMHO only........... Thousands of hours of wind tunnel development time by BTCC, WTCC, ETCC, WRC, and other cars with similar speed/hp/weight trade-offs disagree completely.Edited to correct the double negative in the capitalized sentence... Edited October 29, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 NO ONE'S INTENT IS NOT TO ILLEGALIZE THE COBRA R FRONT FASCIA / SPLITTER. Who wrote that? GWB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 My opinion, either write a book and make it very clear, or make this statement. "If it's not discussed in the rule set, it is not approved." Well, be sure it says in the rules you can put gas in the car! That way of policing things doesn't work real well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 NO ONE'S INTENT IS NOT TO ILLEGALIZE THE COBRA R FRONT FASCIA / SPLITTER. Who wrote that? GWB? Yikes... Yeah, no kidding, eh? See what happens when I try to use the Caps Lock key! Obviously I meant to say: NO ONE'S INTENT IS TO ILLEGALIZE THE COBRA R FRONT FASCIA / SPLITTER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 I'd also like to see the splitter rule require that the floor / underside of the splitter / undertray (which ends at the front wheel centerline) be flat, to prevent things like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 I'd also like to see the splitter rule require that the floor / underside of the splitter / undertray (which ends at the front wheel centerline) be flat, to prevent things like this: Sorry Scott, we already beat you to the punch on that one....I as well as another car in our region currently run a set up very similar to this... Personally, I like the front aero rules as is...just don't raise the splitter any more than 2" off the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Sorry Scott, we already beat you to the punch on that one....I as well as another car in our region currently run a set up very similar to this... Personally, I like the front aero rules as is...just don't raise the splitter any more than 2" off the ground.And I already have a Lexan quarter window - but that alone is not a good argument in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Sorry Scott, we already beat you to the punch on that one....I as well as another car in our region currently run a set up very similar to this... Personally, I like the front aero rules as is...just don't raise the splitter any more than 2" off the ground.And I already have a Lexan quarter window - but that alone is not a good argument in my opinion. Did I miss something about a lexan quarter window? I have them too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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